Cormyr and the Dalelands

Sooo.... New NWN?



And coming out in a month.

Opinions? Any reason to not be super excited for this?

Doesn't look like it'll follow any of the normal dnd rules from what I saw on the taskbar.

Looks more like new Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale than new NWN.

This one is showing the single player campaign (a trailer for it). From what I can gather, the multiplayer has a DM created dungeons, and the DM is a constant presence as players go through the dungeon so they can change things, etc.

What I am not sure about is if the game is a pure dungeon crawler. If so, then it wont have the same moddability for a persistent world like NWN had. If it is just a dungeon crawler, then it seems like it would just be Gauntlet with a DM throwing stuff at you.

It is going off of 5e rule set... So I am not sure how that effects what we're seeing in the game interface.

Here's an example of the DM side:

I've actually written two articles concerning this game (well, one mentions it as not being the new NWN - the other's talking about a delayed release).  I think it's great that it's bringing tabletop back to the PC in a fashion similar to Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment, and I like that a DM can run campaigns on it, but it's limited to only 4 players and the DM, and that, I think, is why it can't really be called "The new NWN." If we can't do something on the same scale as we've got here on CD, it just isn't the same.

Still, I do want it to play with friends.

Ok, so it's not looking like BG/IWD like I thought from the original video, where it looked like one player controlling an entire party. (Granted, it could have been but just been the single-player game, similar to how single-player NWN worked with henchmen.) However, it looks like it's less "dedicated multiplayer persistent-world server" and more "co-op LAN-style game" in the vein of a PnP session. Good for a small group of players I suppose, not so good for people wanting something like NWN. [Aaaand ninja'd by CW.]

I really do not like the glowy "DM is here" ball, hope that's a way to turn that off.

Also don't much care for DM Threat meter. Is this a 5E mechanic or something just put into the game by the devs? Either way it seems to highly obstruct the ability to prepare a dungeon or event completely in advance, in favor of keeping the DM constantly adjusting things on the fly. And having to pay Threat (or have a high enough amount on the Threat) to directly possess/control NPCs/monsters is a big No for me.

Some of the on-the-fly adjusting is kind of cool, especially like the ability to auto-buff or -debuff enemies from normal to minions or mini-bosses with a few clicks.

Dang! I was hoping that wasn't the case... Forced 4 person + 1 DM...

Maybe someone will mod it to allow more people? Open it up to larger servers?

Well, it's my hope they'll open it up with a toolset and the ability to host servers of the same size as Neverwinter, and I even had some suggestions as to how to do that with the current game market (as seen in the first article, there) but I don't know if they plan to do that, or not.

Hmm. I would worry also that it's treating the DM as a fifth player, sort of the way Descent (the boardgame) does, where you have the 3-4 PCs, and then the DM who runs the monsters opposing them - and is trying to "win", but is limited in terms of how much he/she can throw at the players.

From what I have seen, I don't think there's any incentive for the DM to try and "beat" the players. The multiple video showed that there are means to quickly demote and weaken enemies to do quick momentary changes to the difficulty of combat. So it seems like they are making it so the DM can be very inclusive. But of course, you're going to have those Gygaxian DMs who feel their job -is- to beat the player, and I don't think anything can stop that.

The single player campaign can have a full party controlled by 1 person or a party of 4 co-oping, additionally you can get companions as in BG atleast thats what i have read so far.

The DM modules I am not so sure about.

Its nothing like NWN though no where near as flexible, the only game coming any time soon that looks like getting even close to NWN is Shards Online.

-Single-player campaign can be 1 person controlling the party or 4-person Co-op. It is very much the modern-day Baldur's Gate. There will be temporary allies in certain quests, but also companions much like Mass Effect/Dragon Age/BG that follow you throughout the game. Last I heard, there was no permadeath. There'll probably be a hardcore mode or something that adds it.
-DM "light orb" can be turned off.
-Threat meter isn't a 5e mechanic, it's a mechanic specifically implemented for this game to encourage the DM to continue to challenge players, not just make pubstomps or Tomb of Horrors.
-Cooldowns are also something implemented for the game specifically, and aren't really existent in 5e outside of what older editions had. Most of the abilities in-game are also not existent in the PnP 5e.
-If you haven't played 5e yet, do it.
-There will be on-the-fly dungeon crawls for multiplayer that use randomly generated dungeons based on the enemies and tilesets you select. Dungeon crawls can go from anywhere from ~20 minutes to ~2 hours, depending on group speed and how long you wish the dungeon to be (you can select different lengths).
-DMs also have the ability to create full-fledged campaigns in a toolset, much like NWN (something I feel didn't shine as much in NWN. Then again, I never made it past chapter 1 of the campaign). They'll be able to create their own cities, dungeons, lighting, monsters, etc., with a surprising amount of depth.

It's not the new NWN, there will probably never be a new NWN. But it's designed to be a tabletop experience on PC, and could provide that if you can look past the mechanics.

This is what I was wondering about... Because if it has this, then the game could very well do what NWN has done. Although I suppose that also depends on if they make the controls open enough, and then if they get enough people who want to design campaign settings and run servers based on it.

Either way, I am looking forward to it for some quick dungeon crawler fun.

Well, Vincent is probably out then.

Running servers isn't going to be a thing, and doubtfully something they'll add later. The tools are pretty extensive and give you a lot of versatility--not sure how to compare it to the Aurora toolset, though. But games are going to be limited to 4 players and 1 DM. The closest you'll get to having it replace NWN is running a series of chatrooms and hearken back to the day of text-based MMOs and limit yourself to parties of 4. At that point, you're better off sticking with NWN.

Why can't Bioware or someone give us the new NWN that we deserve? T_T

I think we should petition the White House for a NWN 3

Probably mostly because the business model of "let people pay once and create their own MMO" is less profitable than an actual MMO.

Pft, you and your common sense 

Yeah... I am just hoping some developer will figure out some other way to monetize to be honest. I remember seeing this quote from the head of Valve, who said "You can't out-produce your consumer." That strikes with me because that has been my problem with pretty much every MMO I have tried to play, but why NWN and D&D retain my attention even after so long. Though you can't out produce the consumer, what you can do is offer the players means of creating content in a useful way so they can entertain themselves through your game system. D&D manages this just because the game itself is in the mind of the DM, and that can be put into action quickly. NWN has the toolkit, which does take longer, but still offers the freedom to keep it interesting. Both last so much longer than any other game I've played just because there is, truly, always something else to do.

I'm just not sure how a company could monetize a game like NWN without hurting that aspect of the game.

A game like NWN could totally be a sustainable model if you say built a good game, and then a platform where servers could register by paying a one-time registration fee, and then players 'subscribe' to the system for like $5 a month with the idea that most of that cost goes to maintaining the base source code, and server structure, but the most expensive part of the game development - new modules, graphics, etc could be done by modders for free. Then players get the game they always wanted, devs get their money, and the subscription is low enough to not make people run away from the game.

Now all we need is someone with an in with a game developing studio, lol.

So after browsing some of the comments on reddit.com/r/SwordCoast, it seems like the impressions from the "head start" weekends have been as such:

--Currently, multiplayer is more like Diablo II than anything else

--Multiplayer is rife with ninja-looting, so casters are screwed. No current plans to implement Need/Greed system.

--Dying is more effective than using potions since they're so wildly expensive, but everyone can use a healers kit that stabilizes you with a portion of your HP.

--Limited conversation options for module builders--seems like this will probably be expanded later. Problem is more or less alleviated if you're playing with a live DM.

--No triggers. Once again, module builders are screwed here. No announced plans to implement them. In fact, there seems to be very little post-launch support aside from some bug-fixes, balancing, and plans for DLC. Also more or less alleviated with a live DM

--You can opt to play modules solo with AI allies though.

--Some have said it doesn't really feel like D&D. More or less a re-skinned Diablo II. The single-player/co-op campaign has not been open for play yet, though they boast 40+ hours of gameplay. However, that seems to include all of the sidequests, meaning the main story may only be 20 hours or so. There's also the fact they opted for a skill tree and upgrades more akin to Dragon Age (not necessarily a bad thing) that use cooldowns, as opposed to the classic D&D spells/abilities. It keeps things a little more fast-paced when you're not using pause-and-play for the difficult encounters.

The big "solution" I've seen to all of these issues is to play with friends. The comradery, the dungeon crawling, and playing with a live DM all enhance the feel of the game. The problem is it should be able to feel like that anyway. The main story campaign still has some hope and if your play multiplayer exclusively with friends, your experiences should remain pleasant. This goes for running the quick/long dungeon crawls, or if your DM is making their own module.

There's some positive reviews of people who love the game, but most of it seems like people were sold something they weren't expecting, it doesn't feel right, or that the project was too big for this small dev team. While they've been very involved with the community and taking feedback, it's a bit more than they could chew. People crying for refunds willy-nilly. Lesson learned, don't pre-order.

Considering it was only delayed a month and the preview weekends have appeared to be very bare-bones, it feels like we'll be getting an unfinished product. I'll still keep an eye on it to see how it pans out, though.

Ouch. That's really disappointing

Playing it now. This is nothing like Diablo 2. This is a lot more like NWN in combat... However, it still feels "sticky" like NWN2 did.