Title: Some general (positive) thoughts on our XP system
Post by: Kymus on May 30, 2019, 07:08 PM
Post by: Kymus on May 30, 2019, 07:08 PM
Everyone's favorite topic! Yay!! Okay not really, but I feel that I bring a perspective that hasn't really been expressed much, if ever.
So, I first joined this server in late December of 2005. I go through phases of steady play and long hiatuses lasting up to 6 months and I was likely on a hiatus for a good few years at one point (~'09 - '12). Since I was here from pretty much v1.0 of CD, that really colors my perspective of what we have now. *grabs a rocking chair* Kids these days don't know how good they have it! Back in my day, you capped at level 6 and if you wanted more XP then you had to earn it by RPing with a group when a DM was on. Back then, a DM would run around the server and bukake everyone with an XP wand after they were done doing... whatever it is that DM's do.. (point and laugh at all the PCs falling to their deaths from traps and monsters is my guess). That seems archaic by today's standards with a cap starting at 11 and there's the xp fairy that comes to bless you for so much as sneezing and giggling every few minutes.
As I've expressed some elsewhere, I'm quite an introvert. I have social anxiety, I don't do well with small talk, and while on the discord or forum it's much easier for me to get around that personal limitation, once I'm in character, all of that really comes out strong and I just clam the hell up. Back in the day I had a very extroverted friend that I played with on here (doubtful if anyone remembers Sylvan. That's another story whooo boy) and so he'd just introduce me to all his friends that he made in the course of an hour because he loved talking and roleplaying every little thing. Back in the day, partying up was the only reliable way to move forward. You party, you get XP, you do the "I got 150xp today woo!" dance (more like "I got 500xp this whole week! AWESOME!!"). Despite how this XP system has a strong conflict with my own personal limitations, I'm stubborn and after becoming familiar with CD I felt that I'd rather stay here than try to find some other server based in some other region of Faerun, etc. Needless to say, the XP fairy is a godsend for me all things considered. Maybe CD isn't the most ideal server for me, but I don't like action servers and I know so much about Cormyr from playing here that I can't imagine playing somewhere else.
On the other side of the XP pendulum, we have the other server I played on (Engliton, circa '04). The first, and only, server I've played on other than CD. On that server, there were no XP caps, just a level cap at 20. After about a month I hit level 20 and.... my character got boring. I just didn't feel like I had much reason to keep playing him. Right now, I really love my swordmage (Lina). I love the class. I love the character. If there was no XP cap, I easily would have maxed her out by now. A month or two is just too short of a time frame for me to really spend with a character, I think. This is of course one of the reasons for the XP system we do have: it lets you spend more time focusing on character development.
So, I first joined this server in late December of 2005. I go through phases of steady play and long hiatuses lasting up to 6 months and I was likely on a hiatus for a good few years at one point (~'09 - '12). Since I was here from pretty much v1.0 of CD, that really colors my perspective of what we have now. *grabs a rocking chair* Kids these days don't know how good they have it! Back in my day, you capped at level 6 and if you wanted more XP then you had to earn it by RPing with a group when a DM was on. Back then, a DM would run around the server and bukake everyone with an XP wand after they were done doing... whatever it is that DM's do.. (point and laugh at all the PCs falling to their deaths from traps and monsters is my guess). That seems archaic by today's standards with a cap starting at 11 and there's the xp fairy that comes to bless you for so much as sneezing and giggling every few minutes.
As I've expressed some elsewhere, I'm quite an introvert. I have social anxiety, I don't do well with small talk, and while on the discord or forum it's much easier for me to get around that personal limitation, once I'm in character, all of that really comes out strong and I just clam the hell up. Back in the day I had a very extroverted friend that I played with on here (doubtful if anyone remembers Sylvan. That's another story whooo boy) and so he'd just introduce me to all his friends that he made in the course of an hour because he loved talking and roleplaying every little thing. Back in the day, partying up was the only reliable way to move forward. You party, you get XP, you do the "I got 150xp today woo!" dance (more like "I got 500xp this whole week! AWESOME!!"). Despite how this XP system has a strong conflict with my own personal limitations, I'm stubborn and after becoming familiar with CD I felt that I'd rather stay here than try to find some other server based in some other region of Faerun, etc. Needless to say, the XP fairy is a godsend for me all things considered. Maybe CD isn't the most ideal server for me, but I don't like action servers and I know so much about Cormyr from playing here that I can't imagine playing somewhere else.
On the other side of the XP pendulum, we have the other server I played on (Engliton, circa '04). The first, and only, server I've played on other than CD. On that server, there were no XP caps, just a level cap at 20. After about a month I hit level 20 and.... my character got boring. I just didn't feel like I had much reason to keep playing him. Right now, I really love my swordmage (Lina). I love the class. I love the character. If there was no XP cap, I easily would have maxed her out by now. A month or two is just too short of a time frame for me to really spend with a character, I think. This is of course one of the reasons for the XP system we do have: it lets you spend more time focusing on character development.
Our XP system has gone through a number of changes over the years: level 6 cap went to level 8, and then 11, and the XP fairy used to give out smaller increments. Personally, I feel like things are perfect where they're at right now. Given, I of course base this on my own experiences and a perspective of what used to be and such, but it's hard for me to imagine an improvement to our current system. I know how I am (I really do, I swear), and I know that without the XP caps and daily limits, I'd be on all day with the same character, killing things over and over and over and over. Having a daily limit actually helps me with my own time management and it keeps me from spending too much time in game. I can play for 2 - 3 hours, meet my daily XP limit, and feel satisfied like I've played for a long enough time and still work/study/etc.
In regards to the level 11 vs lvl 8 vs lvl 6 starting point for XP caps, I feel that 6 is too early, but 8 makes some sense. Personally though, I really like that we've moved it to lvl 11 because I just find the lower levels to be painful. So many of my characters very quickly find themselves too strong for the low levels but not strong enough for the mid levels. Stuck in a limbo of pain! The horror! So sad! Such torment!! Erhm.. sorry.. Anyway, I find the early levels to be painful and I just want them to be over with. Level 11 can never come soon enough after I get past level 8 or so. Maybe it's because we don't have any dungeons that are like a bridge between the low and mid levels sorta like how the - IMO - Drow Treehouse or Behemoth Cavern are for the stronger lvl 13 - 14 PCs. But given how short of a time you spend in the lower levels, and that dungeon building is a time consuming process, it's likely not even worth creating such an area.
So yeah, I don't think there's been a "I like the system just the way it is" post, so here's one, because I like it the way it is 
. I am very thankful to our staff for the changes made (including doing what would have seemed unthinkable ages ago) and I feel that they've made the right call each time. I really like it here, and I plan on staying forever (sorry for your lots 
); the changes that have been made over the many years really ensure that I do stay and I'm quite glad of that.
. I am very thankful to our staff for the changes made (including doing what would have seemed unthinkable ages ago) and I feel that they've made the right call each time. I really like it here, and I plan on staying forever (sorry for your lots 
); the changes that have been made over the many years really ensure that I do stay and I'm quite glad of that.
Title: Some general (positive) thoughts on our XP system
Post by: sciolist on May 30, 2019, 07:54 PM
Post by: sciolist on May 30, 2019, 07:54 PM
As a new player to the server I really enjoy the slog from 3-10. It gives you the chance to fiddle with your character and work out how they handle in a fight - but also lets you tweak character and so on, as they grow.
I like the timed XP fairy drops and the rationing that so far I've only experienced on the way to L13. One day, I hope to see some sort of DM eventing, but that's not clear to a newcomer how that happens.
Maybe I need to write an engaging quest hook, or just have friends who invite me along.
The forum announcements feel a bit like "Some people who are not you are going on an adventure" - So I may have missed the 'idiots guide to how to get along in CD'.
That said - I'm really enjoying the feel of the server, the prettiness of the server, the elegance of the automated loot and spawning and item tiering.
And the people seem to be good people too.
I like the timed XP fairy drops and the rationing that so far I've only experienced on the way to L13. One day, I hope to see some sort of DM eventing, but that's not clear to a newcomer how that happens.
Maybe I need to write an engaging quest hook, or just have friends who invite me along.
The forum announcements feel a bit like "Some people who are not you are going on an adventure" - So I may have missed the 'idiots guide to how to get along in CD'.
That said - I'm really enjoying the feel of the server, the prettiness of the server, the elegance of the automated loot and spawning and item tiering.
And the people seem to be good people too.
Title: Some general (positive) thoughts on our XP system
Post by: ladybug on May 30, 2019, 07:59 PM
Post by: ladybug on May 30, 2019, 07:59 PM
Quests are posted in this subforum. We're in a bit of a dry spell at the moment as there are several ongoing quests with previously locked rosters, but there should be more open call opportunities in the near future.
Title: Some general (positive) thoughts on our XP system
Post by: Kymus on May 30, 2019, 08:14 PM
Post by: Kymus on May 30, 2019, 08:14 PM
Understandable. I don't mind the first few levels, but I really dislike the later end of the early levels. Of course, I've run those dungeons hundreds of thousands of times so it's possible that I grow weary of them much faster.
I like the timed XP fairy drops and the rationing that so far I've only experienced on the way to L13. One day, I hope to see some sort of DM eventing, but that's not clear to a newcomer how that happens.
Maybe I need to write an engaging quest hook, or just have friends who invite me along.
The forum announcements feel a bit like "Some people who are not you are going on an adventure" - So I may have missed the 'idiots guide to how to get along in CD'.
That said - I'm really enjoying the feel of the server, the prettiness of the server, the elegance of the automated loot and spawning and item tiering.
And the people seem to be good people too.
Maybe I need to write an engaging quest hook, or just have friends who invite me along.
The forum announcements feel a bit like "Some people who are not you are going on an adventure" - So I may have missed the 'idiots guide to how to get along in CD'.
That said - I'm really enjoying the feel of the server, the prettiness of the server, the elegance of the automated loot and spawning and item tiering.
And the people seem to be good people too.
As Lady said, check the announced quests board. They tend to fill up fast though. If it's intended for certain characters, it'll obviously be spelled out. Protip: DM's hate it when you don't listen and keep moving after they say stop, so if you have a suicidal character, there's a great opportunity to get them killed.
Title: Some general (positive) thoughts on our XP system
Post by: hjorrprimul on May 31, 2019, 08:57 AM
Post by: hjorrprimul on May 31, 2019, 08:57 AM
Since this was brought up, I think I will bring up my two cents. I feel I'm probably a bit of a fence-sitter where it comes to this.
Overall, I like progression being slowed down, and I like for there to be a requirement to either stick around and RP or to participate in more involved content (quests, events, etc.) in order to progress. Those premises I am thoroughly behind. I will also be the first to acknowledge that this system has the merits of being largely automated and fair, which is very important for long-term community RP.
I do have things I didn't really love, though, so here goes:
1. Initial progression to level 11 is just a bit too fast. I may be the only one who feels that way, but my character went from level 3 "I'm just a farmgirl with a sharp stick" to level 11 "I take on entire warbands of trolls without breaking a sweat, I could have saved Nesmé by myself" in a couple weeks. I may actually prefer lowering the level at which RPXP becomes required back down to 8, or to add some kinda soft-cap mechanic that penalizes combat XP after you've had a ton of it in a single level.
Of note, I am aware that there is low-level content I've never even seen, and probably never will because you just blast through those levels so quickly by going to the familiar places.
2. More long-term progression past 16 is a bit too slow. With very few quests and the required RPXP per level continuing to increase, you go from having a level every week or so (which is a neat pace) to going quite a few weeks without. If I got under the hood here, I'd experiment with fine-tuning the RPXP requirements to make a slightly more even increase (as this is the lower-effort alternative to making more quests), and aim for making the average total time to level 20 about the same as it is right now, just more front-loaded.
3. Incentivized idleness. I don't know a fix for this one, but the current system creates a nefarious incentive for parking your characters and doing an emote every few minutes, while tabbed out of the game. I know most people fight this instinct successfully, but incentivizing undesirable behavior isn't awesome. The only thing I can think of that would reduce this effect is if the faerie front-loaded more of her XP. The first half of the XP ticks being bigger than the second half or so. That should reduce the incentive for prolonged loitering, maybe? This is a tricky one.
Overall, I like progression being slowed down, and I like for there to be a requirement to either stick around and RP or to participate in more involved content (quests, events, etc.) in order to progress. Those premises I am thoroughly behind. I will also be the first to acknowledge that this system has the merits of being largely automated and fair, which is very important for long-term community RP.
I do have things I didn't really love, though, so here goes:
1. Initial progression to level 11 is just a bit too fast. I may be the only one who feels that way, but my character went from level 3 "I'm just a farmgirl with a sharp stick" to level 11 "I take on entire warbands of trolls without breaking a sweat, I could have saved Nesmé by myself" in a couple weeks. I may actually prefer lowering the level at which RPXP becomes required back down to 8, or to add some kinda soft-cap mechanic that penalizes combat XP after you've had a ton of it in a single level.
Of note, I am aware that there is low-level content I've never even seen, and probably never will because you just blast through those levels so quickly by going to the familiar places.
2. More long-term progression past 16 is a bit too slow. With very few quests and the required RPXP per level continuing to increase, you go from having a level every week or so (which is a neat pace) to going quite a few weeks without. If I got under the hood here, I'd experiment with fine-tuning the RPXP requirements to make a slightly more even increase (as this is the lower-effort alternative to making more quests), and aim for making the average total time to level 20 about the same as it is right now, just more front-loaded.
3. Incentivized idleness. I don't know a fix for this one, but the current system creates a nefarious incentive for parking your characters and doing an emote every few minutes, while tabbed out of the game. I know most people fight this instinct successfully, but incentivizing undesirable behavior isn't awesome. The only thing I can think of that would reduce this effect is if the faerie front-loaded more of her XP. The first half of the XP ticks being bigger than the second half or so. That should reduce the incentive for prolonged loitering, maybe? This is a tricky one.
Title: Some general (positive) thoughts on our XP system
Post by: Edge on May 31, 2019, 09:53 AM
Post by: Edge on May 31, 2019, 09:53 AM
Of note, I am aware that there is low-level content I've never even seen, and probably never will because you just blast through those levels so quickly by going to the familiar places.
We are definitely not interested in re-lowering the base XP caps below 10 again. That much at least is completely off the table.
The ability to hit 10 in a week or so - or even a single day, if you're persistent enough and have the hours to burn - is basically working as intended.
As this is the point where quests and such begin it's typically advised to design character backstory with that in mind, in the future. Just a recommendation =)