Cormyr and the Dalelands

For about two months or more now, I've been noticing a lack of Complete Healing Kits in the Temple of Selune, where there use to be an infinite amount for purchase. I assumed it was because of the current plague quest going on, and the DMs wanted to make it seem like all supplies were being exhausted on the sick, which is cool, kudos to that idea. I'm here to make sure that's the case though, The only Healing Kits available at regular Healing Kits, which do next to nothing for a character with over 400 HP. Anyone know when the Complete Healing Kits (Or better) will be making a return?

I long for their embrace again...


*Hair blows in the wind.*

Fairly sure Vincent removed them intentionally, for good.

... No... NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!




;_;

Yeah, they were removed for being just a tad too good for the price.

If you're at the level that the regular old healing kits just don't cut it anymore, I think the intent is you should move up to Heal/Lesser Heal potions.

Correct. The potions are there for use at high level / high hp pools.

Also as a gold sink. <_<

That's a fair trade off, I notice some potions of Heal in the temple. They cost around 100,000 per 10. How good are those?... If they're as good as I think they are (For that price...), I might just have to make an attempt to stock up on them.

Lesser Heal potions heal between 70-90 HP a use. Heal potions are about double that.

I wish I knew this before I burned through my old stack of 50 +10 heal kits.  <.<   I could have resold those for a good amount!

Only a stack of 50?

I don't know how people didn't have 1000+ of those saved up >.> *cough*

Also I believe the Taverler's Hand merchant has the cheapest heal pots...might be the temple of Tymora but I don't think those are set to infinite.

I think the base prices are all the same, but Appraise checks and other factors may affect the final prices differently.

Oh, they do.

Voss spends around 100K without any appraise gear, and can get it down to around 90K I think, with his two rings of shopping and his gloves of greater appraisal.

Mouse, with her base ranks in appraise, her INT fully buffed (the total +12 with gear and Fox's Cunning), two rings of shopping, her Green and Gold dress with its appraise, her greater gloves of Appraisal...

Still a lot at 77,000, but it does make a huge difference!

I have never bought any of the lesser or greater versions of the heal potions. I've always trashed excess gold on my characters, but now I have a feeling I'm going to need to actually start using them as a gold dump now.


-edit- Which is a good thing. More gold dumps. 

Is there anything for the ones that stay to the outer edge of the battle other than to shoot arrows or sing? I have at least one (Tindra) that does that, then will rush in and heal others. Another (Lena) is depended on to heal the tanks between her own attacks.

Get someone with scribe scroll to make scrolls of heal/mass heal for you, or make do with the kits available, really.

Though I wouldn't be averse to making scrolls of those available in the shops, either.

The last thing we need is more powerful scrolls sold at vendors.

*shrug* I'd agree if they weren't already shelling out the potions, which anyone can use; at least scrolls require the right class or investing in UMD. This would just give them the option to use them on other people.

That's a slippery slope we don't need to continue sailing down, however. Power creep is a real thing and makes future balancing further dependent on already widely accessible buffs. Meaning, current balance depends on you having x, y, and z buffs, because everyone should have them due to their availability. The more things we add, the more difficult it becomes to design interesting dungeons or fights, because to do anything interesting, you must first spam dispel and cheese things to overcome buff dependency and implement artificial difficulty to reach interesting mechanics. And by then, generally the fight is on its way to being completed.

The nerf on heal kits creates a soft gate for otherwise limitless healing during fights. It's fine the way it is. If you play a healer character, invest in healing skillpoints, gear, and spells. Or use spells with effective healing such as stoneskin, elemental protections, or regenerates. I'd rather continue limiting resources as it creates more build diversity and strategy in fights rather than everyone having access and muddying the low and high end of diversity to create a jack-of-middle-grounds.

We'll have to agree to disagree, as I don't see it as anywhere near the issue you apparently do.

I'm kind of with Edge on this one. I don't do Power Builds, so characters suffer for this. My healer DOES have a ton of heal points and heal spells, but during battle, it burns through pretty fast on others. My bard... I'll just stop taking her into combat.

Wands, maybe?  With restriction for cleric/druid/whatever?

Compared to skill point investment and a dice roll, the +x part of a healing kit is not really significant. 9 hitpoints on a 100 hp character is nothing really, and if it was crucial for the survival of a front-line epic tank with several hundred, well.. something went badly wrong. +1 kits are fine. +10 kits are an overpriced waste. [/opinion]

Shame there was no skill mastery feat for healing...

Think the people who would be okay with scrolls would be okay with this (I sure am) and the people who are opposed to scrolls will still be equally opposed to this.

Well wands tend to be super expensive, being gold sinks far in excess of scroll buying, and on C/D actually require the character to equip the item in their off-hand to make use of, denying use of a shield, two-handed weapon, or off-hand weapon. I think this restriction applies its own suitable point of balance to the idea, no? Plus they can only be used once per round whereas heal kits can be spammed faster, and potions too I think.

From a balance perspective I'd prefer the higher power healing kits to the introduction of additional clerical heal scrolls for sale.

At the least the heal kits represent the investment in another skill rather than UMD.

Also a potion provokes an AOO which using a scroll or heal kit doesn't. So I say status quo is fine.

I don't have an issue with higher power healing wands being available for the reasons Remmy listed above. Although in order to get a spell higher than 4 on a wand might take some work.

Heal/ Mass Heal can be scribed, and a bard should have high enough UMD to use those scribed scrolls. Introducing an item for an imaginary reason doesn't help balance. There's no lack of healing available and there's no lack of healing/support potential wasted. Removing these healkits shouldn't have ruined any support or healing character, and it shouldn't be replaced by more powerful options. All this is contradictory to the removal of more powerful heal kits in the first place.

Heal/Mass Heal can be scribed... by MTs or those who spend a feat on it.  Not by your average cleric.

The reason of the removal of the complete heal kits was to encourage the more expensive potions.  I don't see how adding equally expensive scrolls or wands is any worse than the potions... as long as they ARE as expensive.

What Bella said. Removing the kits was because the kits were cheap and to make the potions a gold sink, not because they made the option available to more characters.

Regardless of why they were removed introducing scrolls of the more powerful healing types for stacks in stores regardless of price would provide a tactical advantage (no AOO) to the UMD skill users over others that isn't really necessary.

With the heal kits one had to invest in heal and noone got AOO'd. With potions everyone takes an AOO.

Just want to be sure that is taken into account.

I don't consider it an issue. It's still a skill investment that not everyone can afford to make - or won't for RP reasons, in some cases - and if you did put it in, yay for you.

Except the skill investment in UMD here pays off in wild spades for multiple factors (attack, defense, etc.) with scrolls it would be even BETTER than heal kits as its no AOO, no roll d20 roll on the heal skill since you are in combat to get the HP total and so you get a guaranteed fixed amount of heal. Heal skill in combat is good for one thing...using healing kits so heal gets a little more cred as a skill point sink than UMD.

UMD doesn't need anything else to feed it via scrolls. Adding stacks of heal scrolls regardless of cost favors UMD 'casters' hugely whereas heal kits are at least equally an option to those who've invested the skill points in heal (which is a class skill for all the base classes where as UMD is not).

Imo wands are sufficiently gimped by forcing them to be equipped this isn't quite as bad suboptimal enough to be an equal or worse trade off for the AOO you have to take on potions.

This should never be a thing. Honestly. It's nuts.  Keep 2-3 stacks (100-stack), if you are running out then you are likely too low level for where you are.  Also, the risk of running low on supplies can make things very interesting.

Secondarily, carrying that much contributes to lag.

And not all characters have a ton of money. Mine are continually broke.

It tends to vary between mine. Caprice and Kendaku are pretty well off financially, Kestal and Lia slightly less so. Faethe is usually broke. Edge, Shezzarin, and Raven have almost zilch.

Not surprisingly, the characters who can solo or who are at/near level 15+ are well off, the characters who can't survive long on their own are poor.

I'm not the one who made medic bags have 0% weight, just saying. And it's far less lag than people with gem hoards like some of the half-dragon characters or those with enough extra items to supply a small militia.

I stand corrected.

Felix only has 265, and the most I think I ever had was 600.

The weight reduction was a concession made to the very low STR characters so they could at least carry what they needed, not so that people can carry thousands of kits/potions.  Personally it just takes a lot of the challenge away if you have an infinite supply of healing items at your disposal.   Though I suppose if I found it really a horrid issue, I'd just impose a cap via a scripted cap. I don't generally like those though.

Hmm I was thinking on this, and I was curious, could said kits be brought back but with a skill check? So that to use them someone has to have a set amoutn of heal skill, as it does tend to make it feel like someone who has invested in the heal skill.... is being frozen out of healing people. If the healing is now being provided by potions I mean, it just seems strange.