Cormyr and the Dalelands

Okay as it says on the tin, I presented one part of this in a different thread but to repeat. After a thread has sat in the Quest Request board for a month or so, a copy of it, should be posted to the DM sub-board and the question asked 'What was the issue with this, and how could the person alter this or other requests in the future to gain interest' Right now I feel that the Quest Request Board simply doesn't work, with the exception of RJ's wonderful Peanuts, which serves to help advance personal plotlines, it's easier to just grab a DM in game and ask them to run something for you.

This through favours certain people, those that frankly have good buddies that are DM's willing to do this for them. Which in turn, tends to leave very quickly to power groups forming, who dominate everything, drawing more people to them as the only way to get plotted, and usually said plot, is as a supporting character in the main power groups tales. No one can be the star all the time of course, but I do feel CD has a tendency to make some people the stars far more than is balanced.

So yes Feedback on ideas, so that instead of it being ignored or left to grow stale, you can quickly see what the problem was from too much detail not leaving enough to the DM to not enough Detail that DM's fel;t it was little more than a 'I want cool stuff' request. From unworkable to dull, constructive annoymous feedback can be a great help. Why that? As I also feel there is another reason that can stop people asking directly. The fear of putting someone on the spot, that they feel obligated to say yes, even if your idea has no appeal to them, for fear of insulting a friend. Some people don't like doing that either.

In short make the Quest Request system the same for everyone, not one that favours certain people over others. 

I think it would cut down on jealousy if everyone felt they had the same chance to advance their character, which I can say honestly, they don't currently feel just from talking to people.

((Edit I am not making this as an attack on those who do find themselves in this situation, I do not think it weird that people who find it easier to talk to DM's directly get to do these things. That's natural, especially in the current system. I think the system needs altering to make it so that it's less an issue who has a DM as a good friend for such things, because I think the current system maybe makes people feel that said people get an unfair advantage that makes them jealous.))

I'd like to hear in depth about some instances you're referring to.  I have a feeling I know already, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.


The quest request system is the same for everyone; just because some quests aren't preferred by some DM's doesn't mean it's one-sided.  It just means a DM prefers to spend their time with that plot/character/group of players.  DM'ing is a voluntary act, it will never be mandatory to run things if you're not interested.  That's a sure-fire way of having all DM's say 'Forget this', and then we have zero DM activity.


I think they real way to cut down on jealousy is for people to understand it's a game and they may be forced to alter their story, or let the DM's determine the story for them, if they expect the DM award/attention.  Or.  Just play the game for fun, rather than advancement or worrying about what other people are getting.  This is a Roleplay server; roleplay begets advancement.

I think this thread will be a good place for these people you've spoken to, to voice their opinion.

Okay odd because every post you made in the other thread Dom about how you got your character advanced mentioned speaking to DM's directly. It's funny but yes you are an example of the way the current system favours certain personality types over others, and this is not an attack. It could be, but I am picking my words very carefully.

It's funny because at no point did I say players should be able to dictate to DM's what happens. I said the system should be changed so that instead of silence at a request to the DM board, players got feedback, constructive feedback so that in the future they could present an idea that was better suited to what DM's wanted.

You keep saying the stuff about 'Players should know they have to alter their ideas to help fit in with DM's' as if that wasn't understood. My point is that currently? Currently the silence you far more often get met with on the Quest Request Board means that it doesn't serve a purpose. My current point is, people should recieve feedback regardless of if they feel confident approaching a DM directly and putting them on the spot or not, so they can do that very thing. Alter their goals to help fit in with what a DM wants to do. If they are presenting an idea in the Quest Request board 100% wrongly, then they will do better if there is a post saying so than they will when it is met with 100% silence. 

This isn't about forcing DM's to do run stuff for players, it's about making sure every player gets the same chance at feedback and making a request that actually appeals to DM's. It's about making sure players know what a DM is looking for, and what they are not. It's about making it even which frankly right now it's not.

It's also not about me picking on specific instances and naming them, and thus derailing the thread, so I won't. I could but what good does that do anyone, by the nature of the net me stating certain things, would just make folks focus on the individual instances rather than the broad pattern, one that has been present, hell fuck it's been present since I have been here. I have seen the same pattern emerge time after time after time.

I got my character advanced by Roleplaying, involving dozens of other players, taking initiative and creating content.  This is what we were talking about in the last thread, when people claimed we were getting off topic (Which apparently they had turned into 'free valar, give her spells').  I'm fine with you making it an attack if it gets us out of this 'place blame everywhere else passively but on my own shoulders' rut we seem to be in.  I am not trying to argue, I'd just like to get to the bottom of the veiled comments about how I seem to have cheated my way to advancing my character.  I back out of more quests than I'm involved in, so other people can have fun and enjoy the event.  If you don't believe me, feel free to ask any number of DM's that run things when I'm about.  I don't back out of them because I dislike xp, but because I value their plots moving along smoothly, and others getting to 'shine'.

I'll agree the quest request board needs to be changed, but I would instead of 'revamping' it, remove it altogether.  All too often people request something they want and aren't willing to submit to any consequences that may come along with it.

I don't understand how it's not 'even' when anyone can talk to anyone, and the DM's openly invite conversation and communication.  If people choose not to take advantage of those opportunities, it's not on the staff to fix that.

This may prove detrimental to the idea of this thread as a whole, then.  Because without explaining what you mean, it seems to me you're complaining about DM favoritism, with specifics in mind, but when questioned refuse to express your complaint in detail.

I'm really not sure how what Darvins has said at all implies some of what you seem to be getting from it Dom.  Darvins' suggestion was for feedback on why events might not be taken up, which is a great idea, and this thread is not at all another place to rehash yet again the same exact posts from previous threads.

It's a little frustrating to have the same things brought up in thread after thread when they're not related to the topic being discussed (except in a very tangential an unimportant way).  Not -everything- has to be a pissing contest.

Removing this post because Tenor is right, and I'm not having this become a pissing contest about a completly different subject.

I haven't made any of it a pissing contest.  I'm referring to the veiled insults Darvins is throwing about.  Some of you may not want to deal with it or read about it, but if Darvins is going to passively accuse me of cheating or of receiving DM favoritism.  It's something I'm going to try to get to the bottom of.  I'm sorry if you're offended by that.

EDIT:  I don't have to have pissing contests.  I get stuff done IC'ly; predominantly player driven at that.

*chuckles* that's not this thread. This thread is exactly what it says on the tin. The Quest Request are broken and would be better with Constructive Feedback, as they have been since before Valar was desperatly trying to get something going with you in the Undercity, and we where met with Silence. Something I know you got as frustrated about as me, as you kept saying so.

We even joked how frustrating it was to be met with silence, ah those where the days, right, when you complained about the same system your now defending.

This is about the current system being flawed nothing more nothing less. If I ever make a thread complaining about Bass, I'll name Bass in the title.

This is about being sick of putting ground work into ideas, getting players on board, then asking for a DM to help us run with the idea, and meeting with dead silence, and the chirping of crickets. Which I feel leads to jealousy when others do not suffer this problem, it is not an attack on people for not getting that problem, it's a attempt to over come that problem.

If you think it is an accusation of cheating, then... there is nothing I can do for you. Your wrong, I am not claiming I find Bass's current situation great, there are numerous issues with him that stretch credability to the limit and beyond as a Knight of Cormyr that I think are inane, but meh. I just happily give my characters the response of assuming it's all politics or he's a freak show, Marliirs pet Half-Demon and move on ICly.

If things are consistently perceived as veiled insults, maybe you should look at why you keep seeing insults in what people are saying, cause it's not always other people.  All I'm going to say is you're great at reading into things, and great at getting reactions from people which can then be read even further into.

Back on topic:
I 100% support the idea of revamping the quest requests section to provide feedback on why certain things might not be accepted, as communication is key to enjoying things for a lot of people.  And having an organized rather than ad hoc system of communicating player driven quest desires to DMs and feedback/DM interests in such player driven stuff to players is inherently superior as it makes the system more anti-fragile and less prone to people getting dropped by the wayside.

Just to make clear, after talking it over with Dom. My point here is not to say anyone has been cheating or getting an unfair advantage. I apologise if my wording suggested such. My ideas are based solely on trying to combat any perception of unfairness that is false, but understandable, by helping people to work out why they are not getting picked up. Nothing more or less.

I admit I may read too far into certain posts, and apologize for side-tracking the thread.

Something should be done about the quest request thread, I agree.  But I have no constructive manner in which to alter it positively.

I'm sort of confused here, Darvins. What is the issue? I'm looking at your last two requests on the old forum.

www.createforum.com/cormyrdalelands/viewforum.php?f=8&mforum=cormyrdalelands  -- RedMage responded quickly and offered to help.

www.createforum.com/cormyrdalelands/viewtopic.php?t=19527&mforum=cormyrdalelands -- I offered to take this on, but was never filled in further or contacted.

I even recently asked if you wanted me to run anything for Valar. Like I said, all the times in the past when I inquired about it, I was told somebody else had it handled. If you want real time feedback to your requests, then stop being shy and approach one of us. We're adults, and won't go through with something we don't want to, nor hold anything against you for "putting us on the spot". It never hurts to ask.

Those would be small things, and I should clarify small requests do get picked up pretty darned well. Heh I did reply to that thread where you offered by the way, just I didn't know the details, sorry. I couldn't tell you if it was claimed or not, sorry if that got lost on the way.

It's not so much the smaller things, and maybe it's me recalling old problems that are not any more present, DM staff has changed a lot, and maybe I need to bear that in mind. Vals stuff is from before you where a DM by the way, as I said DM staff has changed a lot, and I admit, you current DM's are ones I've not yet tried to submit big plans too.

I can just recall the frustration in the past of coming up with scheme and plot, and plan with Valar recruiting people, posting it, and getting silence. Asking why I was getting silence and getting silence. I think I stopped making big plans at that point. I started to feel Val was shooting herself in the foot, only so many times you can approach people with a idea for it never to happen before Icly folks start thinking your full of hot air.

I guess maybe, the goal is to make sure if I do start to think of big plans for Valar or Iyanna that... if they suck I'll find out so I can change it to something less sucky, instead of getting silence. Same for everyone else too, not just Valar, through I admit yes like most people, I'm making suggestions for things I'd really like to take advantage of, but for everyone too.

((Oh and that's not an insult to prior DM's I was one of those Prior DM's that was horrid at picking up ideas from the Quest Request Board, or in explaining why I didn't))

I have a character from early 2008 that has similiar treatment(Cataline). She got to where I couldn't even play her, because a DM would begin a quest and then leave her in a life or death situation never to return again to the server. So, you're not the only person with these worries, and not likely the one most affected.

As far as replies go, I'm sure the reason is more or less DMs who aren't interested due to lack of expertise or lack of... interest are leaving it open for others to reply, and it starts an empty circle. There is no discussion between DMs on these requests, so that would be the place to start, so staff would be prompted to give players feedback on where and what they should do to entice DMs more.

I'll be honest, there's a lot on the forums to look over every day and tend to. I don't really look at the quest request board as I much more prefer people come -to- me personally if they want something ran. Nine times out of ten, if someone shows the same initiative they expect from the DMs and contact me personally, I'll do it if I think I can do the plot justice. I prefer this method and encourage it because it allows the players to choose which DM they think would be best, but a "Who shows up and wants it first" deal. I've had several players come to me asking for personal plots already and not turned down a single one, I've even offered a few to many people, you included Darvins. Just poke the DMs playerside, in a PM or however you choose instead of risking it getting lost in a thread. A lot of times, I hear about plots not getting picked up or things not happening just because a thread isn't checked often enough. Direct contact prevents that.

That being said, I more than welcome you to come to me if you wish for anything ran. I've even had players just come to me and say "Run something, don't care what" or "I really want character x in plot y, can we make that happen?" and boom, it was done.

Darvin's point is that many people feel highly uncomfortable poking dm's when they are playerside since the dm is on as a PLAYER.  I know when I was a dm I didn't want people mucking with me about shit when I finally logged to play my characters.  Poking a specific dm so you get the dm you want will eventually lead to everyone poking the same couple of dm's and then burn out said dm's.  The quest request board puts out a lot of player ideas for all of the dm's to look over and if they want to support something, they will, if not, Darvin's, and a lot of other players, would like feedback to know why.  What can we do, as players, to make something a little more attractive to the dm's so they run something for us?  Is the idea good but it needs a little tweak before being picked up?

We want feedback on why our ideas weren't good enough to attract attention so we can fix them, tweak them, abandon them, whatever... so that we can get our characters moving forward.  Just having a post sit there unanswered leaves us in the dark wondering what the hell is going on when a quick response of, hey, change this or, you aren't going to get that period in it's current form, would at least give us a chance to change and move forward instead of feeling left out, abandoned, or shunned.

No one's disputing the fact it would be nice for some feedback, it's just that, the forum is there and if people have the time, desire, or ability.  They'll contact the players.  Some things require Admin approval.  Even DM's are saying it's not handled in an ideal way.  Everyone's beating the dead horse that is the issue, without any constructive restructuring.  Thus far, the best way seems to be contacting DM's in the ways you're provided.  PM's, Skype, when they're in the client, and depending on the DM when they're online in general.

Also ...
Your signature?  lulz.

...which all happen to be things I just don't feel comfortable with. If the Requests board is not the way to do things, I think I agree with the earlier notion that it just ought to be removed outright and replaced with a sticky note saying the above. I did resort to in-game contact once when I had painted myself in an IC corner with RP and needed a DM for resolution.

I shied away from direct contact after I had a negative experience one afternoon when I got physically stuck with a character in a tile and none of the DMs could spare a moment to jump me out (and I had messaged each, including those that were on as players).

Fact of the matter is, I am far from an outgoing individual. I typically play characters who are not of the same persuasion, but I'm very antsy at approaching anyone OOCly. I'm also inept at really bridging any of these gaps on an IC level.

All of this has painted me into a sort of CD-limbo where I am not really all too eager to log in anymore, because I almost feel on the outside cusp of most cliques. I exchange words, I have the occasional in-character heated exchange or vague allusion to real activity, but I don't really feel "involved". And I'm not very well equipped to really break into whatever I feel must be going on somewhere (since I refuse to believe 100% of the population is logging on to discuss the weather or latest fashion).

I've had a good share of excellent roleplay experiences and it was a great set of months where I intended not to do much and just get and establish a feel for the server, but I feel for a while now it has just been a coasting holding pattern and I don't really even know where to go from here. I rolled a number of different characters in hopes that a different attitude or archetype was possibly the barrier for entry, but I still almost feel like I'm mostly window dressing or spice for other inhabitants.

I'm disillusioned and that's not where I want to be, but I've never been outgoing enough to be one to take charge, to lead masses or any of that breed. All I know is that where I used to be quite excited to get on the server, get involved and just to see what what was going on, and now it feels a few steps from pulling teeth. I'd like to turn that feeling around, really I would, but maybe I'm just not up to the task.

I sure hope I was not one of the ones who left you stuck like that. That's really really bad form. And some of us are more accessable than others. Some will go AFK for hours at a clip so possibly that's what happened.

I always try to engage anyone I can in my DM work. Sometimes the plots are ones though that are specific to a faction so you can't bring others in.

Plus you log out generally before I get in.

I'm going to chime in here for a moment about one spot in particular; that of taking charge or leading masses.  I rarely take charge of situations myself.  I prefer being one of the minions, I suppose.  I -know- that I work best as a supporting character.  When things tend to spotlight one of my characters, I feel oddly out of place.

I think I can understand where you're coming from on the fact that there -has- to be something going on, somewhere.  When I log in and see that there are 17 other people on, and none of them are in Arabel somewhere... it makes a person wonder.

I feel for you, that you've lost that connection to some of the folks you've played with in the past.  Heck, Alia misses hanging with her homegirls.

You know, through all of this.  I'm kinda sad, because I really enjoy RP'ing with you on any of the characters you play.  I underlined something I'd like to discuss a moment.  Because it's the second time I've seen it in the last 24 hours.

I may be considered by many to be involved in such a generalization; a clique.  It's true I tend to RP with the same people time and time again.  The reason behind it is it's people I know I can freely RP my character with, without ooc tells about how horrible a person I am ooc'ly.  I'd always considered you to be apart of that with at least 2 of your characters.  I know I don't go out of my way IC'ly enough to include people in such a feeling, ... so I intend to be more inviting both on an OOC and IC level.

Even if Stonehaven may not be something your characters will include themselves in (This I mean in general; to everyone), I try to go out of my way to find something for everyone to do or be involved in.  I'll work harder at this.

EDIT:  Let's not forget, the White Cloaks are a clique too  They just seem to be a more 'all inclusive' clique.  

A million times this.  I have been beating my head into a wall, going out of my way to try and be a little pushy, a little OOC in my character's motives even, to try and get involved with what people are doing, to try and make new friends, to try and reach out for anything to hook into the meat of this server's RP as a returning player who's been somewhat left behind.  It's an uphill battle.  And I at least am friends with a few people already; imagine how frustrating and hard this is for a new player?

I don't have to imagine, because I invited a couple friends to play on CD recently and they have drifted away because they couldn't seem to get involved with anything.

I know nobody likes to hear it, and I know a lot of people like to pretend it isn't the case, but CD's culture has a serious problem with exclusive groups and exclusive roleplay.  I don't think it's done intentionally, but if we keep plugging our ears whenever it's brought up, or worse yet, blaming disenfranchised players for not trying hard enough to get involved, it's only going to keep making it worse.  It needs to be recognized and accepted as an issue, by everyone.

And solving it doesn't mean just talking to new players; As SOC_Tessa says, chatting about the weather isn't compelling.  It means letting people get involved, letting them get close, letting them be included in YOUR story and becoming part of THEIRS.  it means taking a chance on people you haven't roleplayed much with before.  And yes, sometimes those people won't be the best roleplayers in the world or mesh the best with you, but I guarantee at least a few of them will really surprise you and enrich roleplay for everyone.

So let's please stop pretending there isn't anything wrong.  There is, and being offhandedly dismissive of it is insulting to everyone who's really trying to make this server their RP home and having difficulty doing so.  I do believe most of us have the best intentions at heart, but that's why we bring this up at all:  I believe deep down our community is capable of being better than this.

Umm.  I tried to include you in a couple things, and you outright ignored me.    I chalked it up to a deficiency in chest size, and moved on.

Bass, I promise you were not in any way the topic of my post.  I don't recall any such attempts aside from a random invite to Stonehaven once that kept crashing my client.  Something about that area and my videocard do not get along.  xD

That being said:  I don't want to make this thread about Bass or any one character; no one person is responsible for any of my point.  If there has been any misunderstanding between us I'd be happy to take that particular conversation to PM!

Turn off grass and shiny water. Not down, off.

If that doesn't do it then you might have to rely on teleport.

Seems this thread documents two issues that people are experiencing.  

1.  Quest requests that receive no feedback:  I understand the problem.  It is not very easy to do something comprehensive about, though.  To ensure that there is some sort of "group DM Feedback" to any unanswered request, there would need to be a level of organization on the DM staff that really isn't very practical.  Someone from the staff would have to be "in charge" of the board and organize responses from the rest of the staff into the feedback on an ongoing basis.  I'll be honest, I don't see that happening.  That is a LOT of work.  

What I am willing to do, however, is contact the author of any non-responded request post after 30 days and provide my own personal feedback.  I would state emphatically this shouldn't be taken as 'the official position of the DM staff', but merely my own personal point of view.  Does that sound like it would be helpful?  If so, is it something I should post in the thread, or handle solely by PM?

2.  Difficulty getting involved with other PCs/players in something more than a superficial way:  I feel this too, it is hard to feel like you are 'fitting in' a lot of the time.  I agree that this is not something that is susceptible to an easy fix, but let me ask a question - what kind of things HELP people to make contact and initiate more chunky roleplay?  Do we need more support of in-player groups?  More quests that emphasize a particular level range so that people can get an ice-breaker?  More events that are totally comprehensive for the same reasoning?  

None of those is a perfect or comprehensive solution, I realize.  Supporting PC groups can lead to cliques...some people are really bored by festivals/parties...not everyone has characters in the ranges of posted events.  But I'm looking for suggestions on things that at least might help somewhat...

Thanks for any replies

I think aomething like that could be helpful, not perfect and obviously if it started to feel like a chore you would have every right to say 'look folks I can't keep doing this' but yeah I think that would be helpful.



On this, you know what I think may help, more advertised 'Random' party quests/plotlines that start mixing up groups a little bit more. Half the time I think the issue is a natural one where X happens so of course you turn to the people you trust, for help, and the people not in that group start feeling left out. It's natural but it can become an issue, and once that issue starts to happen.... it becomes cyclical, you feel less part of things so you log in less, so you are less part of things so you log in even less.. and so on.

More random parties, of various level ranges I think would start to change that, groups gathered by NPC's instead of by players as it where

I started never running announced quests. I'd only hop in on people out and about and make something happen. If then they chose to follow up on it, it would become a plot. More often than not, players have zero interest in lenghtening any potential plot and will try to cut/ finish anything as quick as possible. I always offer follow ups at the end of my quest, tell them to send me PMs, or tell them to post any further RP on the forums, but it's never happened once. So while I enjoy "random party" quests, rarely do they become plotlines unless you continuously keep picking up random people for each consecutive part which would be madness.

It helps if DMs would also fill out the "get to know your DM" application. That information isn't just for show. It's for the quest request section. Pick out which DM you want or think that can fit your quest and send them a PM. If you're unwilling to do that, then it's not unreasonable then to think people who are openly(get to know your DM thread) unspecialized or uninterested in your plot or idea do not respond to it.

This has been my experience too. :/