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Kudos to Philosophy and Aliana, very interesting points and ideas.

Personally I sort of like the idea of longer perioid buffer for XP, at least for me time goes so fast that week isn't too long at all. However for me it's not just about getting xp, like I said I kinda dislike getting it for free. When I log in I sort of like to have even a vague plan what to do if there's no instant interesting RP happening. Maybe that's just my weakness but I like to do stuff and have challenges. If there was a weekly cap on XP and maybe weekly resetting bounties, I'd trade my free ticks into that option immediately. However I doubt that kind of option is possible?

Dec 21, 2021 11:04:32 GMT -5 Meadows said:

It may not work for you, but it's the healthiest system for the server overall

I'm not sure how long you've been playing NwN or how many different servers you've tried, but each roleplay server needs to find a delicate balance between : allowing people to level at a certain pace to keep their interest and dopamine hits, but also making sure they don't hit max level too fast and abandon their character once they 'run out of things to do' aka leveling. Therein lies the problem: leveling should not be your only thing to do.

As a server you also have to CATER to two different types of players: casual vs. consistent, those who can only game a little vs those who can sit on all day long

If you take away caps and RP xp requirement, people can and will shoot to max level, claim they're bored, make tons of alts, not engage in long-lasting RP or simply move to another server. You kind of have to protect players from themselves. It's not just powerlevelers who do this, regular players are tempted as well.

I have played NWN since it came out in 2002, it was my main game until 2012 and after that it's been on/off thing. I had 3 very long time servers, each of them had level cap at 40 and it was "relatively" fast to get there, maybe a little too fast for my taste tbh.

I agree it's important to keep people interested and engaged in long-term stuff, but there are other ways to do that than completely freezing the play. IIRC, all those 3 servers had some sort of ascension system at level 40. People, if they wanted, could make application for starting over if they wanted to keep the storyline going or change build or for whatever reason. Some did many iterations, some decided to stay at 40. For me hitting the level cap has never been end of the game, vice versa that's when you finally have doors open for all of the world.

I've been DMing pen and paper games since what... 2001 I think and I've never used the per kill experience once in any of my games, instead rewarding players based on their activity, actions, what their characters learned and how they've developed. And that's RP xp. On CD you can see the xp being split between combat, the deeds done (the DM events) and personal development and growth and that's the xp fairy. All of those together make sense way more than just picking one as the best and only one.  Why the idea of character getting experience for picking snowballs seems weird? Because my character while picking snowballs found playces they had no idea existed and learned way way more than from punting gobblins around for couple of hours. Exploration is none less wonderous than combat. Even if the character already knows the places and just jogs around for two hours I heard that's actually how you level up your physique in real life.

I have played PnP few times, a friend of mine was really deep into it long ago. I never enjoyed it myself, it was way too "hardcore" stuff for me. NWN is not strictly following DnD rules either because it was meant for broader audience. That's also one thing that needs balance so that hardcore roleplayers and common folk can enjoy it.. that's of course unless the server aims to be ultra realistic RP simulator.

["RP XP" does not encourage RP]

Dec 21, 2021 5:35:45 GMT -5 Wolfgar said:

This is a system that takes in consideration that none of us is in their teens anymore, most of us not even in their twenties. It offers pretty fair compromise to allow people to progress and live their lives.

Point by point:

"RP XP" does not encourage RP

- It encourages you to log in and play, it's only up to you what you like to do. You can RP. You can run dungeons. You can run around collecting balls. And that's the BEST thing about it.

It discourages activity

- If I get into fun RP or go into dungeon I enjoy I honestly don't care if I'm getting ticks or not. Neither should you. If you want to keep progressing and have more time it allows you to progress few different characters at even pace with their friends and allies. Also social servers are bad? It's characters living their lives. Being social is part of it.

In the end of the day, this is just a game and it should be easy to approach and fun

- I absolutely agree with that sentiment but I really believe the current system makes that fair compromise to have fun for everyone. From one extreme of having no fairy to the other extreme of completely unlimited combat XP the current system sits right in the middle. Sure the "most fun" might be in different spots for different players but it's the compromise so everyone is close enough to still have fun instead of being ideal for one player and terrible for another.

We certainly have completely opposite view on this. For me this doesn't seem like a fair compromise at all, it feels like a very strict reachout towards passive/social playstyle only. 

"- It encourages you to log in and play, it's only up to you what you like to do. You can RP. You can run dungeons. You can run around collecting balls. And that's the BEST thing about it."

There would be encouragement to log in even more without this system, it just kills motivation to do most of that. If some people would like "free xp" for their RP, I wouldn't mind them keeping the ticks. Though if possible I'd opt out of it myself because I don't get any enjoyment for leveling up for picking up snowballs.

Also I don't mean to bash social servers. If people just want to chitchat it's all fine with me, as long as they have fun. I don't care if they get free xp for doing so. It's not my thing though.

[Disclaimer]

Disclaimer

First of all, love the server. It's very beautifully built and there's lots of custom content that make the core game so much better.
I've also met lots of great players. Actually everyone I've RPed with have been awesome and have really put lots of effort to their characters.

However one thing that I truly don't understand, and what I'm seriously struggling with is this XP system. I tried search and read old topics and rants about it, and still simply could not figure out why it's there.

I'm propably poking a touchy topic here. Hopefully nobody gets mad because this is not directed against anyone personally and I hope the discussion remains strictly so. However I do feel like this is something I have to get off my back. Either I get convinced I'm wrong about everything, or I get convinced this is not a place for me. Or just maybe the team might reconsider the necessity of this whole system.


Without further rambling, here are some of my issues with this RP XP system:

"RP XP" does not encourage RP
At least for me, most interesting character evolving happens organically when I do what my character would normally ICly do, which often is exploring and adventuring. When this artificial lockdown kicks in and completely removes all motivation to go out and do your thing, and it really hurts RP. Being forced to sit in square, get bored, talk with other people who are bored and just wait for ticks.. with nothing in common to do, it only leads to goofiness and forced "RP". Worse yet, I often find myself go to places that my character would ICly avoid, only because that's where majority of people linger. Last but not least, it might lead you to sign up for event with a character that would never, ever be there ICly.

It discourages activity
This is my biggest issue. When I lose all motivation and incentive to go out, what am I supposed to do? Socialize with random people for OOC reason? I hate to say this but, to me (at the moment) it makes this feel like a social server.

It severely restricts creating new characters
If you play any kind of adventurer type of character, you propably want to level up at some point to get into new places. Having only one reliable source for progression requires that you log in for 2+ hours every day. For me at least, it means that if I ever want to level up my main character, I can propably never have more active characters than that. If you make alt and play that for a month or so, you can never "catch up" no matter how active you are, because progression at that point goes static speed.

It limits players' ability to create storylines
This is related to previous point, not being able to keep multiple alts up to speed. Say if I wanted to make a short-term evil peep/group to spice things up for others? Now you got no chance as it takes a year to get relevant. Sure you can beg for DMs to help with that, but you'd still lose all the joy of doing the usual journey. It would be like playing a NPC. Maybe I'm just used to players doing stuff like that instead of everything being up to DMs.

It splits already small playerbase
Traveling with old characters who are already at epics or reached level cap is out of the question. You simply can't reach high enough level to A) be within the 5 levels if you want to train with them or B) to be able to contribute at all when going to epic dungeons. Sure you can chat with them while stuck in the square but it's not even half of the fun if you can't have common activities.

It puts unfair and unnecessary stress on both players and DMs
This one is pretty self explanotary. Also, even if DMs did overtime dropping their own PCs and running quests, some players would still miss chances to join them. Players stress about lost chances to join events and sometimes even for just logging in. I do like the idea and possibility to request personal events/quests, but I don't like the thought of making those even partially for XP reasons.

In the end of the day, this is just a game and it should be easy to approach and fun
Daily tics, scheduling for events and all the application bureaucracy makes it feel like a part time job. You find yourself logging in even when completely unmotivated or too tired to do anything and just do some zombie things for those ticks. IMHO those who enjoy full-time socializing would NOT lose anything even if this system was removed, but it would make things more fun to those who enjoy being active.


I am not saying that leveling up should be easy and fast. Personally I enjoy it taking a proper time and I prefer high difficulty where you need a party to go with and get to RP with them. As long as it's there, available and up to players to decide when they want to train and have something meaningful to do.

"Yeah but the powerlevelers..."? As long as I remember, there has always been whining about powerleveling, but in the end of the day it has only been an issue on super slow xp, high PvP servers. I've been told that here PvP is just about non existent, and it always requires consent. So even if someone decided to powerlevel, who would it hurt? Some people love to level up faster, some slower, as long as everyone does it how they get most fun of their time, right?

If the reason of this system is to keep epic characters rare.. then I just don't get it. Is majority not supposed to ever get to see epic areas? If it's a power/balance thing, isn't that why cap has been lowered to 30?


Am I the only one getting absolutely crushed by these downsides?