Messages

Dec 22, 2021 21:11:53 GMT -5 sornduskryn said:

Simple solution.  Ignore the numbers.

How droll. Perhaps there should be a hard mode progression for players that find numbers to be an unwelcome distraction from their more rarefied immersion preferences. Then we may cease to debate whether is is a good thing to be rewarded with experience or if the correct approach is the stoic indifference of a Marcus Aurelius.

More in response to Belladonna; I can understand that from the perspective of the admin staff that it may be assumed that players will remain for 3 or 4 years to 'get there in the end' or 'savour the journey' when it comes to progressing multiple characters but as someone that finds exploring different backgrounds, dispositions and philosophies there is a very tangible feeling that i'm playing the server wrong when I have to spend 9 hours a day to keep progression within the 2 year box.

I really enjoyed Philosophy's post.



While I will say even causing mobs to give 1xp/kill overcap would result in bloody-minded genocide on my end and probably isn't the best way to handle-things it might be nice if there was some way to substitute for Event XP by completing a weekly quest for dungeons within your level range. With this amount being subtracted from less 'regular' rewards.

Dec 22, 2021 8:59:58 GMT -5 Wolfgar said:

The weekly xp cap rather than daily gets discussed every few months and the arguments against it are always the same, instead of showing up daily some characters would only appear once a week and then disappear, less activity, less interest and so on and I kinda agree with all of those. But then you have daily xp with the stress to catch up and make it and people hopping from character to character to get their ticks everywhere and... it almost makes me think day is too short and week is too long. In a way something like 2-3 days would probably be ideal. It's not as intuitive than day or week but it'd take away stress about missing a day and give you more time to spend on single character without missing on another while not having the long pauses of weekly cap.

I like current system but this is the only change I think could be really positive.

I think the sad truth is that this is simply more noticeable when it's an absence of several days versus someone saying 'Well I have to go touch myself for 8 hours or the Dancing Lady will not grant me her boons' to quote something one of my characters might legitimately use to disentangle herself from a gathering so I could balance out my progression.

Where engaging roleplay occurs this actually heavily penalizes characters that stay the course with what they are doing. I'm not sure Weekly Caps would obviate this problem. Perhaps allowing the experience fairy to dole out 900 XP in a single day and simply refreshing the cap by 300 every reset would be the best solution.

If a strict weekly cap then a rate of 15/tick with 10/tick and 5/tick as you begin to frontload.

I'm going to take a contrary position here.

If longer-lasting buffs removing danger and urgency increase roleplay then why not have a command that summons a 30 War Wizard and Silverstar of Selune to fully buff you with everything they have?

This would allow for almost unlimited time to roleplay in dungeons and would ensure that there was no penalization to non-casters who are left behind the power curve if you simply make every buff last indefinitely.

With any progression system, you have tradeoffs. You're never going to have general 'parity' with higher-level characters unless you have full leveling with combat experience or a level cap of 3 like some of the weird servers I've played for a total of 2 minutes.

The problem I would identify wouldn't be that it paces levels. As long as everyone in the past leveled at this rate or slower, then like it or lump it's a fair and proven system.

The issue more open to criticism are that it acts to restrict the maximum while having no catch-up. The existence of a tribe of proud never-twenties is acknowledged but the desire to push characters toward their most complete realization is a staple of the roleplaying game genre and isn't diminished to a subjective matter of taste by a minority achieving mid-level nirvana.

For people not embracing this mindset and desiring to move at the 'reasonable' pace that is set then it can reduce the number of characters they are willing or able to spend a few hours a day on. I can well agree that it would have unforeseen consequences to carelessly change how experience is rewarded as a blank cheque but it seems as though the best way to play a second character is either to split your focus every single day regardless of other preferences or obligations or simply to weave whatever cool roleplay idea you had into your first character.

Weekly Roleplay Experience instead of Daily
Weekly bonuses for characters that have been played a fair bit maybe only a day or two that gets you to something like 1500 for the week

I would steer clear of making caps fill up faster for characters identified as lagging because you can do less meaningful roleplay with a 'half day' in my opinion

Dec 15, 2021 5:39:39 GMT -5 Garage Trashcan said:

While Paladin is a bit feat starved, that's not the core issue of the class. The problem is that there's no incentive for deep investment into it over multiclassing out. The last "Feature" you get is Extra Smiting at 10th and their 4th level spells are mostly crap.

Giving them a singular, highly restricted bonus feat does not solve any actual balance issues. It's a band-aid fix which, admittedly, a lot of our fixes are, hence the +AC on so many base classes that have been added to keep up with AC creep, because that's easier than a server-wide rebalance of every +AC value and absurd stacking some class combos are capable of. And really, this wouldn't band-aid it much at all. A bonus feat every 6 levels like Green Knight would be a closer fix. However, I don't think that's the path Vince would like to take with it.

There's been talk in the past of changing Lay on Hands to a cooldown every X minutes or at least allowing more than 1/day, which would be a welcome change. Their Smites/Day still need minor fixing as the intent was to give them 6 uses after Extra Smiting and I think they only get 5 right now and 3 base.

It wasn't intended as a complete fix per say but as a way to provide an easing of feat tightness that is somewhat fitting to the class lore and isn't as generic as granting power attack would be to ensure that Divine Might and Shield can be acquired without the tax of a prerequisite feat. Giving Divine Might or Shield as a choice between the two at particular levels would disadvantage Paladins that had to take the feat to qualify for Cleave to acquire devastating critical. This just seemed the least offensive way to add a feat without duplication of Hospitaler.

Regarding the restrictions not meshing well with Edge's point about deity favoured weapons I was operating on the precedent that the Favoured Souls of certain gods who have powerful or unusual weapons has a feat tax on Cormyr and the Dale Lands in the form of automatic proficiency requests being denied. Which was slightly disappointing when I was weighing the merits of a Dark Elf or of a Favoured Soul of Kelemvor, who I really enjoyed the depiction of in Neverwinter Nights II.

[This would have 3 effects]

On review of the class and how it interacts with the available options my opinion is that it's as people say, a solid B-Tier class that suffers mainly from unfavourable comparison with a Favoured Soul/Divine Champion which pre-ascension can reach 4 APR, Level 8 Spells that are stronger than anything a Paladin will ever have, Divine Might/Shield and depending on the Deity a useful Weapon Specialization. Also Monk Omni-Saves.

This isn't meant to be a complaint about imbalance just to highlight clearly and unambiguously what is on the table when people sit down and try to decide what flavour of crusader they would like their character to be. Hospitaler is better than straight cleric but your mileage will vary on whether it's worth making it your third class, as a Cleric.

For Paladin, which gains less, Hospitaler's Bonus Feats paradoxically give less but are also far more badly needed to reach what multi-class options allow a Paladin to scale beyond 1 BAB and d10 HP/Level;with Hospitaler you can reach 10-13 levels of Weaponmaster and reap some of the benefits. But you will notice that what Hospitaler really does here is allow Paladin to qualify for this Prestige Class while picking up Divine Might and Divine Shield. This is pretty modest. With improved evasion you have something but you could definitely unlock Divine Might/Shield with 2 levels of cleric like some sort of Bard dip for evasion and use the same general feats Paladin must spend anyway.

For a very modest suggestion on how to make the class marginally less feat starved I would suggest allowing a LETO request for a focus in a 'Knightly Weapon' 

This would have 3 effects

1. More Paladins would use classical knightly weapons like straight-edged swords, maces, hammers, axes and halberds and feel rewarded for choosing to do so.
2. It provides Paladins (and only Paladins) a feat rebate on Power Attack which they otherwise require to access Divine Might and Divine Shield. Clerics are thus slight less ahead in Martial Combat as they must use a feat to specialize in melee, further defining differences between these two types of divine servant.
3. It would make it easier for Paladins to make use of their multi-classing options without being locked into Hospitaler for the majority of their Paladin levels.

[what?!]

Dec 10, 2021 23:55:06 GMT -5 Edge said:

Keen has already been altered on this server so it can be applied to any weapon from casting or scroll, regardless of damage type. There are some keen blunt weapons already in the loot, and more on the way as blunt weapons in general are rather underrepresented compared to swords and other more common weapon types.

But as to going through the entire loot table and making all blunt weapons keen? No, not happening.

Keen being available from scrolls and party members would explain why it appears under-priced in itemization in the same way that EB/AC appear to be (with rare exceptions) baseline functions of item tier is because it would be difficult to put an absolute value on it when Greater Magic weapon exists.

Going through the entire loot table is indeed a hammer to crack a nut, pun intended. A sprinkling of more competitive weapons for underrepresented types is the elegant solution as these are the ones that will be snatched from oblivion if they are sighted in pawn inventories.

The variety of drops on the server and the occasional thrill of 'This item can do what?!' is part of the appeal of dungeon crawling and standardization or a balance inquisition was never my intent. I'm grateful for the prompt and hopeful response.

Just as an offhand parting word, since it appears the server staff do listen even if this one is much less likely to have a fix or even be seen as a problem in it's current state. I caveat again this is a personal and self-indulgent point that has grown in the writing of this response. 

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I find Paladin as a class underwhelming, given that the roleplaying restrictions (even if not as visibly enforced) are as harsh as those of a Bladesinger if taken seriously it would be nice to see a Paladin be worthy of the reverence in which they are held by those they fight to protect. The tabletop divine classes added to C&D seem to add Paladin features to full-fat Divine Casters and in doing so outcompete unless the intention is to make a purely 'roleplaying' character that sacrifices the ability to fight monsters for social status.

For a Heartwarder of Sune this is fine. For the eponymous Holy Warrior it is deeply frustrating to me that an Archetype that is so defined by the restrictions on when they may draw a blade in anger makes such an average contribution when doing so.

i understand that the classes as presented may be exactly as they are in tabletop and that alterations or buffs may compromise a perceived need for canonicity but it seems to have the victim of power creep and it saddens me because i'd like to play one, but I can't swallow the idea of playing a character that has such thoughtful deliberations over when and how to take action while I, as a player feel a sense of relative mechanical helplessness.

If it helps tie a seeming tangent together my original 'last line' was going to be a request for Weaponmaster/Blackguard/Paladin themed items that help to flavour them and further develop a unique playstyle. Then I thought that maybe these items would be enough to make Paladin feel like a powerful holy warrior and I remembered how much I actually want to play one. But feel unable to.

I'm writing in response to the change which removed critical immunity from most of the mobs on the server.

While there are good reasons for this change in that on an undead-heavy server which seeks viability for rogues and mundane characters who become weaponmasters to reach the pinnacle of weapon training it has removed the roleplay-derived ability of blunt weapons to more readily smash creatures resistant to finesse attacks.

I fully acknowledge that the small immunity/resistance to slashing/piercing still exist but they are trivialized by the exponential damage multiplication that critical hits and sneak attacks offer by their very nature.

My recommendation is that existing weapons in the loot table receive a more generous allocation of keen property that in my subjective opinion seems to exist on the vast majority of bladed weapons and it's absence from blunt weapons, which excusable when blunt weapons were the de rigueur for monsters on which the keen property was useless this bifurcation between monster types no longer exists in practice and the enhancement to crit range offered most bladed weapons should become universal so that martial blunt weapons remain competitive with their bladed equivalents. 

While it may be said that these examples are cherry-picked I offer them as evidence that my view of the loot table skew is offered in good faith on the merits of evidence.

Scimitars (Purple)



Warhammers (Purple)





Blue Tier Weapons



Things to note

The Blue Scimitar is a defacto blunt weapon and has presumably always undermined blunt weapons although it's keen property, as stated was useless against undead and so it was merely versatile.

The additional damage property on display here and as roleplayed permits spiked warhammers and nailbat clubs which can as a result feasibly be keen, if there are roleplay purist arguments against keen on the basis that it is magical sharpening.

 The Purple Scimitars when not keen appear to offer very powerful utility effects which allowed the keen property to be traded off when facing undead. An apparently vestigial form of balancing around crit immunity.

For full disclosure there are popular deities whose favoured weapon of heavy mace allows their favoured souls the proficient use of warhammer. I will however defend occasional 'up gunning' from a ceremonial mace of blessed rest to a very large hammer as being no worse than the draconic pantheon who do not of course wield curved swords approving their favoured soul's use of such weapons as being 'close enough for goverment work'