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Another underwhelming and underutilized melee class. It has some issues that could use addressing.

Issues I see:

Past 5, it gets nothing of immense note. DR is nice, but 6/- DR is not 5 levels of progression nice.

The class lacks offensive utility. This is fine, it's a defensive class. But because of that, its defensive utility should be quite good, whereas in fact it's quite limited. The main issue I see here  revolves around Defensive Stance:

1) Very limited uses. Given that it's not a particularly strong buff (mostly all subject to caps) AND it locks you in place AND it limits use of other modes, I'm not sure this is a necessity.
2) Being a mode in NWN, and in particular, a mode that locks you into place, it is subject to some wonkiness--and due to the locking in place, and moving cancelling it, it is subject both to sometimes making the defensive character somewhat ironically worse, and also subject to being accidentally wasted frequently.
3) Little in the class beyond level 5 that sufficiently incentivizes further progression.

So first off, I would propose making Defensive Stance an at will toggle/unlimited use. However, given that this makes it a bit more useful/powerful, I wouldn't want to see someone dip it just to pick it up, and would recommend changing its place in progression should that be the case. Given how easily Defensive Stance breaks, and how unpredictable aggro is in NWN, I think making this ability unlimited use is really a necessity to make it worthwhile, more than keeping its place at level 1.

I also like the idea of an "Unyielding Defender" having some sort of fear immunity, and this may make for a nice early ability--good enough to feel rewarding when you get the class early on, but not enough of an ability to dip for.

Finally, some sort of saves progression may add some nice filler progression and a bit more all-around defensive utility to the class. Sacred Defense from COT? It's subject to the buff cap, but I think there's some merit to giving this class some defensive utility even unbuffed. Bonus feats may work as an alternative.  Maybe a bit more DR progression in epic to make it slightly more interesting as well. Some evasion as a level 10 capstone to take advantage of those vs trap bonuses and saves without needing a rogue/whatever dip.

Proposed progression example:

Add to class skills: Tumble

Abilities:

1: Aura of Courage (Fear Immunity)
2: Sacred Defense (+1 to all saves every 2 levels); Defensive Awareness: Retains his DEX bonus to AC, even if caught flat-footed or attacked by a hidden or invisible creature.
3: Defensive Stance: Cannot move. +2 STR, +4 CON, +2 all saves, +4 Dodge AC. (At will)
4: Sacred Defense 2
5: Defensive Awareness 2: Cannot be flanked. Immune to sneak attacks while attacking.
6: Damage Reduction (3/-); Sacred Defense 3
8: Defensive Awareness 3: +1 Reflex saves vs Traps; Sacred Defense 4
9: Damage Reduction (6/-)
10: Evasion; Sacred Defense 5
12: Damage Reduction (9/-); Sacred Defense 6
14: Sacred Defense 7
15: Damage Reduction (12/-)
16: Sacred Defense 8
18: Damage Reduction (15/-); Sacred Defense 9
20: Sacred Defense 10

(Note: Further progression of Sacred Defense past the initial feat isn't actually extra-feat based, this is just to show the progression)

Currently, UD gets a feat every 4 levels in epic. Pretty terrible for a pure melee class, and gaining DR a couple times doesn't make up for that. I'd suggest bumping that progression to every 3 levels (if not already the case).

I would probably look at redoing the buffs Defensive Stance gives as well, if they aren't blackboxed.

I feel there are still some builds that would be able to move on, whether temporarily or permanently, from the class past 5 levels in like this, but there's certainly more incentive to go beyond it like this (especially if you aren't taking an Evasion elsewhere, and/or going for a DR build).

May 27, 2019 19:26:53 GMT -5 Edge said:

I'm 99% sure we can't give them Flurry or anything like it due to blackboxing.

We have a similar skill for Bladesinger--one that is weapon-specific, even, and that was created way back in the non-EE days, so that has to have been done somehow (or it doesn't function and our class changes thread is erroneous).

Toyed with this briefly after discussing duelist on Discord today.

Remove from Requirements: Mobility

Add to Requirements: Expertise



Abilities:

1: Canny Defense - Dodge bonus to AC based on intelligence bonus, limited by class level.
2: Thug - +2 initiative, +2 Persuade (as a substitute for Improved Reaction)
3: Mobility
4: Lightning Reflexes - +2 Bonus to reflex saves. (Substitute for Grace)
5: Precise Strike - Bonus damage while wielding a light piercing weapon based on Intelligence bonus, limited by class level.
6: Spring Attack - No longer incurs Attacks of Opportunity for moving in combat. (Substitute for Acrobatic Charge).
7: Improved Expertise - (as somewhat thematic stand-in for Elaborate Parry).
8: Improved Initiative - (Substitute for the 2nd bonus of Improved Reaction).
9: Deflect Arrows
10: Graceful Assault  - At will, the duelist gains an extra attack per round at full BAB while wielding a light piercing weapon, at a -2 penalty to all attacks in the round.

Assuming the duelist invests in their int, this adds +1.5 average extra damage over the current implementation of Precise Strike at 5, and +3 extra at 10, while giving some scaling in between. Nice, more thematic.
Graceful Assault makes for a much more interesting capstone for the class.

My 2c. Feel free to use, or not. Nothing particularly original here, tons of homebrews out there with similar ideas. Most of them give the Flurry-like ability much earlier; I think it works better as a capstone.

[Purple Dragons]

Cormyr Military Faction

Purple Dragons

Who is in charge? -- Me (OOC) Jae O Cathasaigh (IC)
What is the goal of your faction/guild? -- This is under review and I will add to this soon, but the obvious focus is on martial matters, direct service to Cormyr, and at least semi-organized factional objectives and rewards.
Who can join? -- Anyone willing to swear an oath to serve Cormyr/The Crown in a military fashion, with roles for purely martial characters, scout/rogue/archer types, and divine servants (some martial applicability of the faith recommended).

War Wizards

Who is in charge? -- Me, Monarch of the Sea (OOC organization) Minami Shijo (IC)

Who can join? -- Any character with arcane talent willing to swear an oath to Cormyr/The Crown and serve primarily magically. Technically, any and all arcane casters (including bards) are accepted but I would suggest access to at least 3rd circle spells or a high amount of spell like abilities as magical combat support and investigation is the primary purposes. The prestige class is purely optional.

Good to hear everything worked out for the better, for a change. You would've been a bad loss!

Jun 29, 2015 14:06:37 GMT -5 onivel said:

Might not want to use " " in the name as it screws up people trying to send you tells... maybe us -Krix- instead. I had the problem with Badhbh. Just a suggestion.

Can use 'Krix' fine too.

Apparently enlightenment also included getting rid of that Shia LaBeoeoeeueuef business. Thank god.

One thing I despise about punishing death more/making it cost more/etc. aside from the argument about bugs/lag/OOC factors leading to your doom:

Punishing death more means, somewhat ironically, punishing the people who don't powerbuild and/or who just aren't good at NWN combat more. And while CD is a little heavy on the build optimization due to somewhat challenging dungeon design, there are still plenty of "RP build" characters out there, or at least flavorful ones. These are typically the people/characters that'll die first in a dungeon group, and have a harder time soloing.

Even for someone like me, who plays "optimized flavorful builds", this poses a problem--for example, my character Erynelleth. I would never use two-bladed sword on a WM if the server punished death harder, as it is insanely more efficient to save a feat, grab a 1h martial equivalent like short sword, sword and board when there's risk and dual wield when focusing on DPS is safe. Sticking with her style as an IC choice/flavor option sometimes means more dying and more risk, as a nature of horribly balanced 3e/NWN mechanics, and I don't know if I would do it if death were punished harder.

Regarding the TP stones, I think these are primarily useful as an OOC/time saver factor and would leave them alone. Some dungeons have an end of dungeon exit that works and some don't, some are really awkward to run through backwards again, and not to mention it just saves time where people could be getting back to Arabel and RPing after a dungeon instead of spending another 5-20 minutes focused on clicking around a dead dungeon. It also helps for those late night excursions where you go to the middle of nowhere with a friend, particularly if said friend is a mage and teleports you, then you RP until you're exhausted and wake up the next day in the middle of nowhere.

And personally, it's saved my ass from being OOCly stuck/bugged numerous times lately.

While I understand and agree with cutting down on the free travel options a bit, the TP stone only brings you back to the server's RP center and lets people get to their RP faster, or saves them from bad OOC situations. I'd say leave it alone and focus on other options.

Jun 21, 2015 23:54:54 GMT -5 TheGuyThatPlaysAsJames said:

The story of the coat, the trunk, and the very large closet will be one that is passed down through the ages.

And let us not forget the hat or the rack upon which it sits!

(Ye gods, now we're doing it here...)

[lengthy]

A quick shoutout to ThatGuyT.. whatever, the dude that plays James, Darvins and any of those coincidentally (perhaps unfortunately) involved in the lengthy RP regarding the topic of coats. It's been an amusing diversion from a lot of the more serious stuff I've been involved in lately!



Uhhh-huhuhuh... she said "lengthy."

Welcome to my domain. Muahahahaha.

One originating from a quest the other night:

If a satyr ran for office, would he be a political satyr?

I'd much prefer extradimensional dice myself!

Jun 6, 2015 9:54:21 GMT -5 valiea987 said:

So many birthdays all in a row!

Have a great one! Certainly you can turn this thread into an argument about balancing some part of the game. ^.^

Aging needs to be nerfed!




...Thanks guys.

[Favorite moments:]

Wacky character, you say?

I give you Baloo Balao, my pen and paper anthropomorphic baleen whale bard. (I swear this a real thing... Savage Species, guys. The sourcebook that quite literally jumped the shark).

Baloo sez, "Sup?"




He's named after Baloo (the sleepy bear from the Jungle Book) and the US Navy submarine class Balao. I thought both of them had a rather "whalish" sound to them, and the idea of combining a wise anthropomorphic bear with a submarine seemed to fit the character).

In a nutshell, the template is absolutely retarded, but I sold my DM on it for the hilarity factor. For 3 Monstrous HD (no ECL! Just 3 class levels sacrificed to hit die!), he gets +8 str, +4 dex, +4 con and +4 wis. He also gets +9 natural AC, can take 10 on all swim checks, and is large size. And the monstrous HD levels give full BAB and strong fort/ref, so they aren't horrible either.

We did stat buy, so the starting stats were:

STR 22
Dex 16
Con 18
Wis 12
Int 14
Cha 15

Baloo is something of a gentle giant, as I imagine most whales to be relatively docile, peaceful creatures (even if that isn't necessarily the case in nature). In fact, he's quite sharp--as reflected by his above average int, wis, and cha, he's got a strong personality that is charming and clever. He dresses quite sharply as well; his preferred clothing (when not in armor) is a fancy suit and a top hat.

There is a difficulty he has, however--while Baloo speaks aquan, gnomish (more on that in a moment), and draconic, he doesn't speak common at all. When Baloo first came to land, he found himself in gnomish lands, working with a gnomish mentor who became his friend. As such, the next language he picked up was gnomish. The gnome was a wizard, and possessing some natural magical talent himself, he easily became fluent in draconic.

Said gnome, a member of the party, is an inventor and travels constantly with Baloo. He typically rides Baloo's head, usually tucked away under his top hat, which has been magically modified by the gnome to house a comfortable little pocket plane to stay in while traveling. This adds an amusing factor to Baloo's battle tactics, as while foes certainly expect the large whale with a sword to charge at them and cause mayhem, few expect a gnomish wizard to pop out of his hat, flinging spells.

Baloo's "whale song" is certainly the stuff of legends. While he can somehow manage to make his songs sound inspirational and happy, his sad songs are truly sad, feeling the hearts of even the stoutest men with sorrow and regret. The song is said to carry for miles, and many miles more under the water. This has got him booted out of town on more than one occasion whilst tavern singing; the locals did not appreciate hearing whale song in the entire neighborhood in the wee hours of the night.

Truly, Baloo is a force to behold. I'm glad the DM allowed him; it was a very story-driven campaign and though some of the benefits of his ridiculous template did come into play at times, we made sure the situations were likely to inspire hilarity.

Favorite moments:

Obviously, we used cliches and whale jokes and references all the time. Some of the best:

At the beginning of a fight, a party member yells "Release the kraken!" After the gnome explains it and the whale charges ahead, the whale spends the entire fight lecturing his party members about how whales and krakens are members of entirely different species of different intelligence levels, and that saying "release the kraken" for him would be like releasing a wave of cockroaches when someone yells "release the hounds."

The gnome explained to the others that part of the reason he tolerates the rather oceanish smell of the whale is that he's convinced that at some point in the future, a large farspawn entity will invade Toril, ionizing the atmosphere, and that only whales will be able to communicate with it. Naturally, and as with most gnomes, he was viewed as a little "out there".

Checking back on this one, given the math and the relative situation bows are in, is there any reason -not- to allow GMW and EMW to affect bows (since this is fixable), or can we look forward to doing this?