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Messages - Andrea8789

#1
Suggestions & Ideas / Re: Dragon breath DCs
Mar 05, 2026, 12:02 AM
I want to address this with some maths.
We will be making the following assumptions:

  • The characters are level 16.
  • The characters have maxed out their magical bonus to any attribute that governs their DCs.
  • The DD character is 10th level DD.
  • The caster character is a level 16 full caster with no PRC.
  • The characters have no racial bonuses to any of their attributes.
  • This is pre-epic levels (Levels 1 to 20)


A DD does not put points into CHA while leveling.  Generally speaking, a DD character will put points into STR as they are a melee martial character who wanted that dragon spice in their life.  This means that the worst case is that a 10th DD will have 8 CHA score / -1 CHA mod and be able to get that up to +5.  At best, a 10th DD will probably have about 18 CHA score / +4 CHA mod and be able to get it up to a +10 modifier.  This means that the DCs can range anywhere from 25 to 30.

A full caster will have a score of 22 in their governing attribute (Charisma, Wisdom, or Intelligence) by 16th (Assuming they only have one caster attribute to worry about).  This comes out to a +6 modifier.  With their whole magical bonus, this puts them to a score of 34, or a +12 modifier.  The DCs for their spells are calculated with a base 10 + spell innate level + Caster Attribute Modifier.

With this, all spell DCs at 16th caster level are as follows (From Innate level 0 to 9th; ignoring feats and other special bonuses): DC 22 at 0 (Cantrips), DC 23 at 1st, DC 24 at 2nd, DC 25 at 3rd, DC 26 at 4th, DC 27 at 5th, DC 28 at 6th, DC 29 at 7th, DC 30 at 8th, and DC 31 at 9th.

By comparison, the breath ranges anywhere from a 3rd level DC spell to an 8th level DC spell on a full caster with none of the advantages. The breath has a terrible save type (Reflex) which means it can be further negated by evasion.  Most of the damage types that are available are pretty well resisted generally speaking (Cold, Fire, Electricity).  The average damage (8d10) of 44 means that energy buffer will more often than not just negate most of the damage anyways disregarding evasion.  Also this feat doesn't discern friend from foe making it difficult to actually use in melee with your other melee friends there.

Personally, my quick and dirty fixes would be allow a choice of scaling type at breath weapon unlock; give both a breath weapon that scales with CHA and a breath weapon that scales with CON.  Make it so at max level DD, the breath no longer hits friendlies, or even just make that an optional bonus epic feat for DD.

My lengthy, probably balance-breaking idea is to buff the breath weapon then give it limited charges that don't come back until after a rest.  The DC would be the same calculation and have an option to choose between CON or CHA scaling upon acquiring the breath weapon in DD, but now the damage would scale similarly to how spells scale on casters up to some maximum bonus damage at 10th DD where it also no longer harms allies.  This would make the breath a menacing threat but also a limited resource the player has to manage.
#2
Suggestions & Ideas / Warchanter Rework
Jan 24, 2026, 06:47 PM
Now, before you get up in arms and all angry about this; Warchanter is actually pretty okay, but it's not good or competing with bard.  However, I believe that Warchanter shouldn't be competing with bard, it should be making bard better in a different direction.  This direction is martial prowess while still allowing the bard to bard (Especially when other bards are present).

In this thread I aim to address a few issues and painpoints that playing warchanter in a party with another bard brings.  These are the following:
  • Bardsong and Warchant are mutually exclusive meaning half the reason to take a Warchanter is nullified by having a Bard use their bardsong which overwrites your Warchant.
  • Warchant has a lot of buffs within it that are overridden by the usual wards and most can be applied by a full bard, making most of the kit feel a bit lackluster.
  • Because of the above, Warchanter feels like a worse martial.

Warchanter
  • Hit Die: d8
  • Proficiencies: armor (light, medium), shields, weapons (martial)
  • Skill Points: 6 + INT modifier
  • Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Craft Armor, Concentration, Parry, Persuade, Perform, Profession, Discipline, Intimidate, Heal, Item Lore, Knowledge (Arcana, Local 1, Local 2, Engineering, History, Geography, Nature, Nobility Religion, The Planes, Dungeoneering), Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Taunt, Tumble
  • Primary Saving Throw(s): Fortitude, Will
  • Base Attack Bonus: +1/Level
  • Spell Progression: None
Requirements
  • Base Attack Bonus: +4
  • Skills: Concentration +6, Perform +10
  • Feats: Power Attack, Cleave
  • Class: 5th Level Bard
Level Progression
| Level | BAB |   Saves   |          Feats                          | HP |
|             |Frt|Ref|Wll|                                              |
|  1st  |  +1 | +2| +0| +2| Bardic Power, War Chants                | +8 |
|  2nd  |  +2 | +3| +0| +3| Marching Chant Improvement              |+16 |
|  3rd  |  +3 | +3| +1| +3| Reckless Chant Improvement              |+24 |
|  4th  |  +4 | +4| +1| +4| Enduring Chant Improvement              |+32 |
|  5th  |  +5 | +4| +1| +4| Marching Chant Improvement              |+40 |
|  6th  |  +6 | +5| +2| +5| Reckless Chant Improvement              |+48 |
|  7th  |  +7 | +5| +2| +5| Enduring Chant Improvement, Inspire Awe |+56 |
|  8th  |  +8 | +6| +2| +6| Marching Chant Improvement              |+64 |
|  9th  |  +9 | +6| +3| +6| Reckless Chant Improvement              |+72 |
| 10th  | +10 | +7| +3| +7| Enduring Chant Improvement              |+80 |

Bardic Power: War Chanter levels count as Bard levels for determining power of Bard Song & Curse Song.

War Chants

War Chanters gain three different chants that focus on specific aspects of combat.  These all have one charge and regain a single charge every 20 minutes or all charges upon completing a rest.  Each chant gains additional charge each time they improve, up to a maximum of four charges total for each chant.

Reckless Chant and Enduring Chant both last 1 turn +1 additional round per Warchanter level (1 minute 6 seconds at 1st, 2 minutes at 10th).

Marching Chant lasts 1 turn and an additional turn every three Warchanter levels (1 minute at 1st, 4 minutes at 10th)

Chants are not effected by Empowered Music or Lasting Inspiration and can be used in conjunction with Bardsong.

Reckless Chant: The Warchanter inspires allies with an emboldening chant, helping them focus on the fight, increasing the Attack Bonus and Damage Bonus of the Warchanter and every ally around them by +1.  Reckless chant grows in power at 3rd, 6th, and 9th Warchanter levels respectively.

At 3rd Warchanter level, Reckless Chant provides a +2 to both Attack Bonus and Damage while also providing immunity to fear effects. 

At 6th Warchanter level, Reckless Chant provides a +4 to all saves vs. Mind Affecting effects. Reckless Chant will also purge fear.

At 9th Warchanter level, Reckless Chant provides a +3 to both Attack Bonus and Damage while also providing immunity to all Mind Affecting effects.

Marching Chant: The Warchanter bellows at a set tempo, guiding their allies in a rhythmic march, increasing the movement speed of the Warchanter and every ally around them by 10%.  Marching Chant grows in power at 2nd, 5th, and 8th Warchanter levels respectively.

At 2nd Warchanter level, Marching Chant gains an additional 10% increase in movement speed, setting it to 20%.  In addition, Marching Chant prevents movement speed reductions but not binding or paralysis effects, nor the effects of the Slow spell. 

At 5th Warchanter level, Marching Chant gains an additional 10% increase in movement speed, setting it to 30%. In addition to the 2nd level immunities, these now extend to immunity against Grease, Web, and Paralysis effects.

At 8th Warchanter level, Marching Chant gains an additional 20% increase in movement speed, setting it to 50%.  It now provides the effects of Freedom of Movement spell.

Enduring Chant: The Warchanter invigorates themselves and their allies with a chant, granting themselves and allies around them 20 temporary hitpoints and an additional +5 temporary hitpoints per Warchanter level.  Enduring Chant grows in power at 4th, 7th, and 10th Warchanter levels respectively.

At 4th Warchanter level, Enduring Chant provides a 3/- damage resistance.

At 7th Warchanter level, Enduring Chant provides 6/- damage resistance and +1 regeneration.

At 10th Warchanter level, Enduring Chant now heals the Warchanter and allies around them for 15% of their maximum hitpoints and removes all negative effects instantly. Enduring chant now applies +2 regeneration.  Those who hear this chant are immune to the instant effects of it for two turns.

TL:DR

Buffs
+Now works with Bardsong
+Now full BAB
+Overall damage is up by +1 (+3 from Reckless Chant; +3 from bardsong vs the +5 from Warchant currently)
+Overall AC is up by +2 (Dodge; no longer reduces Armor Class.  Reckless Chant could still lower Armor Class by 2?)
+Now purges fear and binding effects with different Chants
+movement Speed increased dramatically on the Chant (Might be fair to nerf it but with how widespread longstrider is on no UMD items, it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal)
+Provides Freedom of Movement (6 minute duration is shorter than a potion of it)

Nerfs
-Inspire Awe now has a three way contingency reliant on having at least one charge of every chant available for its use as it consumes one use from each chant.
-Kingly Resolve rolled into Enduring Chant, healing halved, and targets who hear the chant are immune to the instantaneous effects of it (EG, no spamming all 4 charges for a +60% AoE heal and massive amount of negative effect cleansing).
-Chant takes a little longer to get online and going
~THP from Enduring Chant is more but you get less overall as it's no longer tied to bardsong charges but a static 4, meaning 70*4 rather than the potential of 50*~25
-These could be made mutually exclusive to one another; EG, making each Chant kept up for its duration and cleared when another by the same Warchanter is used.[/list]