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Had some real quick questions, and maybe this goes in General instead. 

About housing, is it all done all at once? As the recent housing update coincided with a new server IP, does that (or would that) happen every a new house is put in? If I build a house for myself now, and submit it and it's approved, would I need to wait until the next large update, and/or would it change the server IP? 

About relevels, do you just ask for it and explain why? Further, if you're granted the relevel, do you lose XP for your current level? 

(And, About Quests, how much detail and scriptedness is generally expected to be done on the player's side? I submitted a kind of long quest request and someone looked over it and told me it was too general and I needed to name an end-point, though I've also seen really vague requests get accepted.) 

I'm not sure I'd do a weekly reset with that, I could see heavy farming of the system. I know I'd be one to take my level 12 character through the Arabel sewers just to get a couple hundred XP.

On the other hand, that might not be a terribly bad thing. It would speed up XP gained slightly, but it's very likely that the amount of XP you gain at higher levels, while becoming greater and greater as you're able to conquer more and more dungeons, would still be a rather small amount of XP progress toward your next level.

Oct 12, 2015 18:58:28 GMT -5 Edge said:

Long story short not-so-short:

The admins - most specifically Vincent, who does almost all of our coding and most of our hak work - already have a LOT of things on their plates at this time, and even considering something like this is extremely low-priority, doubly so since you can accomplish this effectively with the available classes such as Bard and Rogue. Actually implementing it, as a result, is even lower priority, and would be slotted well behind a great deal of other things currently on the waiting list, including but not limited to implementing the new hak content, new scripts, the constant work of finding and correcting spell errors, completing Warlock and Swordmage, and creating and adding new dungeons.

Not all Rogues are thieves, and taking a level in the class does not lock a character into that kind of RP. This would be easier to display if we had something like Archetypes or Alternate Class Features or whatever, but unfortunately that's not really an option.

Add into this that we are really, really not interested in providing "NPC Class" options to players. That's... not really the kind of RP we are interested in fostering here. We have enough characters who sit around and talk and don't really adventure all that much (and I'll be honest, I've done it myself, especially in times like right now when I am on heavy overtime and my limited playtime is usually somewhat stifled by me being OOCly exhausted), the last thing we really want to provide is classes that encourage non-adventurer character concepts in a world built for PC adventurers.

Our recommendation for characters seeking more skill points to spend is to multiclass into Bard or Rogue, start with a higher Intelligence at character creation, and/or play Humans. Creating a new class pretty much exclusively for the purpose of allowing more skill dumping and/or increasing the skills/skill points available to a character is not really an effective use of our resources. We would rather spend that time/effort on creating new Prestige Classes, new base classes that offer options truly not currently available like the previously-mentioned Warlock and Swordmage, and on other things such as the stuff mentioned in the first paragraph.

That, and Rogue is already suffering enough from "struggling to be useful" syndrome in a lot of places on CD as-is. Giving it yet another class to compete against in the "skill monkey" role, on top of Bard and Ranger, is kind of shooting the poor class in the knee after you've already broken an ankle.

So yeah, this is very much likely not going to happen.

Yeah, tbh when I started the thread I didn't realize how un-different it would be from just having a level of rogue (or bard). All my arguments basically boiled down to, "Why do that, I'll just take a level of rogue instead," and I think maybe it just makes more sense to take a level of rogue and fluff it away.

Thanks for the consideration!

Hang on a second, can I remind you all that people who want to min/max and "skill dump" will just take a level in bard or rogue? Considering the point of Ancient Netheril to to be difficult and restricted, sure, make that cross-class. But I think even UMD ought to be a class skill here. If someone wants it to simply make their character more powerful, rather than it being a good fit in-character, they'll simply take a level of rogue.

Keep in mind, you're sacrificing a level of a useful class just to get some skill points, which (again) could be gotten by grabbing the rogue levels instead. So if you're a spellcaster, you're missing out of spellcasting improvement, if you're a fighter, you're missing out on attack increase and feats. You're not getting a rogue's sneak attack/evasion or a bard's music/lore/spells, so this is offset by having access to all (except Ancient Netheril) skills.

Also, if you're already multiclassed, this is likely going to force you to change your build, or suffer XP penalties. For a class that is strictly a worse option than taking a level of rogue, and only exists to provide RP flavour, let's not make it even worse than it already is.

Otherwise, I'll find a way to shoehorn in that Rogue level instead of ever bothering to take Expert. And so will anyone else.

(Also, I don't know how hard coding is, I'm not a programmer. But it doesn't seem worth it to me to create a class with a bunch of new abilities, that interact with other things in unique ways, which requires some one to take SKill Focus twice. I'm trying to make things easier, not harder.)

[But the thing I really want is the Expert.]

I'm sure we're all familiar with the NPC classes as presented in the DMG: Commoner, Expert, Noble, and Adept. I'm not certain it's a good idea to implement a Noble player class, and Commoner is usually best handled by being level 1 and not adventuring. Adept might be a viable thing, though less-powerful than usual spellcasters. But the thing I really want is the Expert. 

As a human cleric with a base Int of 10, my character gets 3 skill points per level. And, due to the nature of this character, I'd gladly sacrifice a level to get some extra skill points. I could consider taking bard (though I'm lawful, so I can't) or rogue (which doesn't wholly fit a priest of Ilmater), but it would make a lot more sense to say, "I've spent this level honing my skills" and drop that level into Expert. 


My recommendation is to make it a prestige class which:
##Requires character level 4 to enter,
##Has all skills as class skills, and
##Has however many skill points per level the rogue has (or the core Expert has, it that's more).

This keeps people from grabbing it at first level and maxing skill points (whether this is the intent, or they fall into a trap), and makes sure they have an adventuring class. It gives them a load of flexibility in skills that the Expert class is meant to represent, without doing a bunch of coding (core, the player picks 10 class skills for their Expert levels), and dumps a pocket full of skill points on them. 

It's not a good fit for everybody, but neither is bard or rogue. That's the point. But for me, and my character, we'd love to drop a level or three into expert to boost our Knowledge, Tumble, and Appraise skills, since the 3 skill points per level are basically dedicated to Heal, Concentration, and Spot. 

My two coppers.