Notice: Mutliclassing Rules update.

[Vincent07]

We have revised the rules for Paladin and Monk mutliclassing.

Please see the first post: Here.

In-game journals will be updated to reflect these changes with the next update.


We have tried to keep these new guidelines as simple and easy to understand as possible while still not violating the tone of the setting.  If you have any specific questions, do not hesitate to ask.

[Edge]

I presume the "No Paladin and Monk on same character" is provided an exception by the Yondalla/Hin Fist order listing?

[Voice of Kerensky]

Dec 26, 2014 21:37:17 GMT -5 Edge said:

I presume the "No Paladin and Monk on same character" is provided an exception by the Yondalla/Hin Fist order listing?

I think in that one particular case, the paladin and monk levels should be able to "stack" with each other in terms of determining if they make up a majority of the character, as long as one is equal to at least half of the other.

10 paladin/10 monk would be legit.

7 paladin/4 monk/9 cleric would be legit

8 paladin/10 hospitaler/2 monk would not be legit.

The cheesiest level 30 thing I can think of using the above restriction is something like 9/10 monk, 5/6 paladin, 15 cleric. Some power potential there, but 15 CR is an easy dispel. And if they've otherwise put up with a pretty awful class combination long enough to get to level 30, I think they deserve it.

This is a little more complicated than the new rule, but it's also a very, very situational Order/class combination. The other option is to require that they keep monk and paladin equal.. and 10 paladin/10 monk (or even 15/15 at epic) should not be inflicted upon anyone.

[tenorgeneral]

I do have a question:  What if someone is telling a story in which a fighter, or other class, is working towards being a paladin?  Say the hypothetical fighter is level 12; he would not be allowed to take paladin levels, as he would end up being fighter 12/paladin 1 for a decent time, and would only balance out levels at 24th character level.  Would something such as this be allowed?  How would this be handled?

[Edge]

It would probably require some kind of application first and foremost, and be handled from that point on on a case-by-case basis. There's also the option of a rebuild to bring the character into line with the rules, by exchanging most or all of their Fighter levels for Paladin levels (somewhat similar to what Kestal went through, losing her Fighter/Sorc/Blackguard build for a pure Paladin one).

[Voice of Kerensky]

I'd be inclined to agree with Edge.

Also, regarding my question regarding the one specific order, forget what I said about the "Half of other class level" BS. For that one particular case, just let the monk and paladin levels stack together for purposes of determining requirements. There's not really anything particularly over the top powerful that can come out of such.

16-19 monk, 1-4 paladin? Whatever.
14-20 paladin, 1-6 monk? Whatever.
Some combination of paladin + monk that's >= 10 + 9-10 cleric? Whatever.

[tenorgeneral]

So one could apply for gaining paladin levels without an instant rebuild sort of like the unlockable prestige class process?

[Edge]

Well like I said, it'd need to be discussed on a case-by-case basis more likely than not. Characters rebuilding into Paladins (or Monks, for that matter) is far from a common occurrence.

[tenorgeneral]

That's what I assumed happened when people applied for the locked prestige classes, so I think we're on the same page.

But just to make sure, the order of events would be:
Request Permission to level in paladin -> Discussion of this particular case between admins, player and admins possibly too -> Decision is made -> level into paladin, or don't based on the decision.

[sinisteromnibus]

Dec 27, 2014 11:55:41 GMT -5 tenorgeneral said:

That's what I assumed happened when people applied for the locked prestige classes, so I think we're on the same page.

But just to make sure, the order of events would be:
Request Permission to level in paladin -> Discussion of this particular case between admins, player and admins possibly too -> Decision is made -> level into paladin, or don't based on the decision.

Throwing in my 2 cents for clarity's sake here, tenor:

I'm pretty sure that this request would need to be made -after- the character has been created and rped in the game world for a while (at least a few levels) instead of putting the application in at character creation because becoming a paladin when you started out as something else seems a lot like falling as a paladin to me. If you create a character with this specific goal in mind for them, it's sort of like forcing rp and hedging your character's interactions and reactions such that you consciously guide your character to an outcome that would be more fulfilling and poignant for everyone if it came about as a natural consequence of unplanned interactions in the game world.

In short: if you create a character and decide before that character has ever interacted with the game world or anyone in it in any way that said character is going to 'become a paladin' it -could- seem to the admins that you're simply making a character with the express intent to bypass this new rule on multiclassing. However, if you have no intention for such upon character creation and allow interactions in the game world to influence the character - potentially guiding them to -or- away from that path - I imagine that would be seen as less subversive and more an earnest attempt at establishing a unique story with the character that is driven by roleplay and interaction within the world rather than conceived solely within your own mind.

Recent events/interactions my character has been involved in have led me to feel that creating a character on CD with the express intent to have them move into or out of one of the divine-based classes (cleric, monk, paladin, blackguard, druid, etc) before they've ever even interacted on the server tends to be viewed as a nonstarter for rp and the involvement of others with the development of your character. Whereas when these events transpire as a direct result of your rp and interaction with others:

EX: paladin spends a lot of time around a half-fiend, finds said half-fiend to be unexpectedly not-so evil -> paladin begins to question his own views on good/evil and morality and doesn't realize the half-fiend is putting on an act to cause him to question himself -> paladin's doubt diminishes his faith, his god grows displeased causing paladin to doubt even more -> paladin falls and has no one to turn to but half-fiend -> half-fiend encourages paladin to become a blackguard to evil deity -> ex-paladin becomes new blackguard

Instead of looking like someone is just mechanically interested in gaining the benefits of paladin without abiding the class restrictions (not saying that's your intent, merely commenting on the ease of making this assumption), the above scenario shows roleplay with other characters and/or npcs along the way which shows the staff you're interested in the story aspect of things - not just your own story but also the part you can play in the stories of others.

Again, just my opinion here.

[tenorgeneral]

This was in reference to characters which had already existed for some time in the game world, as otherwise, it would be a matter of about 3 days of hunting to equal out paladin and other levels.  

The situation which you surmise to be acceptable was exactly the kind of situation of which I was speaking, so I think...  everyone's on the same page.

Though to be fair:  All half-fiends are evil, and any paladin in need of a reminder should seek out clerical aid immediately.

[ClockworkMayhem]

Dec 27, 2014 14:44:26 GMT -5 tenorgeneral said:

Though to be fair:  All half-fiends are evil, and any paladin in need of a reminder should seek out clerical aid immediately.

Nope. Risen fiends are thing. Are they the norm? Of course not. But they happen.

[Fire Wraith]

Dec 27, 2014 14:44:26 GMT -5 tenorgeneral said:

Though to be fair:  All half-fiends are evil, and any paladin in need of a reminder should seek out clerical aid immediately.

To be more blunt - You are wrong.

You're welcome to have characters think so ICly, but, as a matter of things which can and have happened in the game, you're wrong.

[Arya]

+2 to what Fire Wraith said.

~Arya

Playing a half fiend for me has been a very fine line.  First, I differ from the peacocking loud mouths and would rather do something far more subtle.  Is it evil?  Who is to say, they haven't done much evil yet, and the only dastardly thing was offer mercy.  Fall in love, and out of love, and live a very sedentary normal life.  Maybe it's a neat spin?