Complete Healing Kits?...

[Edge]

*shrug* I'd agree if they weren't already shelling out the potions, which anyone can use; at least scrolls require the right class or investing in UMD. This would just give them the option to use them on other people.

[The Red Mage]

That's a slippery slope we don't need to continue sailing down, however. Power creep is a real thing and makes future balancing further dependent on already widely accessible buffs. Meaning, current balance depends on you having x, y, and z buffs, because everyone should have them due to their availability. The more things we add, the more difficult it becomes to design interesting dungeons or fights, because to do anything interesting, you must first spam dispel and cheese things to overcome buff dependency and implement artificial difficulty to reach interesting mechanics. And by then, generally the fight is on its way to being completed.

The nerf on heal kits creates a soft gate for otherwise limitless healing during fights. It's fine the way it is. If you play a healer character, invest in healing skillpoints, gear, and spells. Or use spells with effective healing such as stoneskin, elemental protections, or regenerates. I'd rather continue limiting resources as it creates more build diversity and strategy in fights rather than everyone having access and muddying the low and high end of diversity to create a jack-of-middle-grounds.

[Edge]

We'll have to agree to disagree, as I don't see it as anywhere near the issue you apparently do.

[realityjumper]

I'm kind of with Edge on this one. I don't do Power Builds, so characters suffer for this. My healer DOES have a ton of heal points and heal spells, but during battle, it burns through pretty fast on others. My bard... I'll just stop taking her into combat.

[Deleted]

Wands, maybe?  With restriction for cleric/druid/whatever?

[ermmm]

Compared to skill point investment and a dice roll, the +x part of a healing kit is not really significant. 9 hitpoints on a 100 hp character is nothing really, and if it was crucial for the survival of a front-line epic tank with several hundred, well.. something went badly wrong. +1 kits are fine. +10 kits are an overpriced waste. [/opinion]

Shame there was no skill mastery feat for healing...

[Edge]

Dec 1, 2014 11:40:45 GMT -5  @belladonna said:

Wands, maybe?  With restriction for cleric/druid/whatever?

Think the people who would be okay with scrolls would be okay with this (I sure am) and the people who are opposed to scrolls will still be equally opposed to this.

[Remmy]

Dec 1, 2014 12:59:39 GMT -5 Edge said:

Dec 1, 2014 11:40:45 GMT -5  @belladonna said:

Wands, maybe?  With restriction for cleric/druid/whatever?

Think the people who would be okay with scrolls would be okay with this (I sure am) and the people who are opposed to scrolls will still be equally opposed to this.

Well wands tend to be super expensive, being gold sinks far in excess of scroll buying, and on C/D actually require the character to equip the item in their off-hand to make use of, denying use of a shield, two-handed weapon, or off-hand weapon. I think this restriction applies its own suitable point of balance to the idea, no? Plus they can only be used once per round whereas heal kits can be spammed faster, and potions too I think.

[Deleted]

From a balance perspective I'd prefer the higher power healing kits to the introduction of additional clerical heal scrolls for sale.

At the least the heal kits represent the investment in another skill rather than UMD.

Also a potion provokes an AOO which using a scroll or heal kit doesn't. So I say status quo is fine.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2014 13:29:10 GMT -5  @runsfasternaked said:

From a balance perspective I'd prefer the higher power healing kits to the introduction of additional clerical heal scrolls for sale.

At the least the heal kits represent the investment in another skill rather than UMD.

Also a potion provokes an AOO which using a scroll or heal kit doesn't. So I say status quo is fine.

I don't have an issue with higher power healing wands being available for the reasons Remmy listed above. Although in order to get a spell higher than 4 on a wand might take some work.

[The Red Mage]

Heal/ Mass Heal can be scribed, and a bard should have high enough UMD to use those scribed scrolls. Introducing an item for an imaginary reason doesn't help balance. There's no lack of healing available and there's no lack of healing/support potential wasted. Removing these healkits shouldn't have ruined any support or healing character, and it shouldn't be replaced by more powerful options. All this is contradictory to the removal of more powerful heal kits in the first place.

[Deleted]

Heal/Mass Heal can be scribed... by MTs or those who spend a feat on it.  Not by your average cleric.

The reason of the removal of the complete heal kits was to encourage the more expensive potions.  I don't see how adding equally expensive scrolls or wands is any worse than the potions... as long as they ARE as expensive.

[Edge]

What Bella said. Removing the kits was because the kits were cheap and to make the potions a gold sink, not because they made the option available to more characters.

[Deleted]

Dec 1, 2014 16:18:10 GMT -5 Edge said:

What Bella said. Removing the kits was because the kits were cheap and to make the potions a gold sink, not because they made the option available to more characters.

Regardless of why they were removed introducing scrolls of the more powerful healing types for stacks in stores regardless of price would provide a tactical advantage (no AOO) to the UMD skill users over others that isn't really necessary.

With the heal kits one had to invest in heal and noone got AOO'd. With potions everyone takes an AOO.

Just want to be sure that is taken into account.

[Edge]

I don't consider it an issue. It's still a skill investment that not everyone can afford to make - or won't for RP reasons, in some cases - and if you did put it in, yay for you.