Paladins and Multiclassing

[The Red Mage]

It's because with one level of monk you get evasion, tumble, and discpiline. Evasion is a great feat,  but I do agree that on this server it isn't that useful. There aren't too many mages who throw out evocation spells that have reflex saving throws. It's mostly to not be blown up by your own party members. Monk could get the shadow dancer treatment and move their evasion to level 3-4, which would limit a lot of the powerbuild options. The wisdom to AC bonus isn't that great unless you also have decent uncanny dodge coupled with it.

Monk/ Ranger/ Cleric is the classic tried and true. It becomes more monsterous with the ECLs available who have access to more free stats and benefits at level 1 than a human at level 30.

Monk/ Cleric/ Paladin strength version is also very strong.

Monk/ Wiz/ Arcane Archer

Wizard/ Monk/ Shadow Dancer

Wizard/ Monk/ Palemaster

Depending on uncanny dodge, Monk/ Assassin/ Blackguard can be pretty decent.

[Masque]

I think the issue with ECL races though is they make everything more powerful. I would say look at the ranger class and then look at the Monk class. The ranger class gets pretty much everything useful the Monk gets and he gets to wear armour. The Wisdom to AC bonus the Monk gets is to be honest inferior to being able to wear armour.

The Monks two main class features are - UBAB and Wis - AC. The Wis to AC isn't a boon more you invest a lot of points in a stat that doesn't do much else for you.


The ranger pretty much does the job of the Monk better in the builds listed above.

[The Red Mage]

The wisdom to AC is still a significant boon on this server thanks to the plentiful scrolls, potions, and the fact that owls wisdom stacks with mass owls wisdom. That's a free 4 AC there, even if you start with 10 wisdom and cap dex.

[Masque]

It isn't though when you lose the ability to use a shield for the cost of a few GP you're adding +3 with no stat investment. Dual wield builds it is still debatable if its worth is as you're expending resources when you're already a little bit 'MAD'. Monk adds marginal AC at the lower levels which can compensate for the fact that dex builds suffer in the AC department in the early levels but it by no means pushes you ahead in terms of AC.  

[The Red Mage]

It does push you ahead in terms of AC in later levels when dex begins to outscale plate armor.

[Masque]

That only happens very late game now due to Adamantium Plate we're talking highish epic. That level of investment in dex and wisdom has meant your strength score is much lower than a plate fighter for very minimal advantage. But that is more an argument of why dexterity is a weaker build option which is true. Does Monk's Wis - AC negate that a little bit? Yes. Does it mitigate it enough to make up for not being able to do as much damage as a strength build I would suspect not.

Is it completely useless? Absolutely not but it is hardly a game breaking ability that the Monk possesses to warrant the level of restrictions that are placed upon it.

UBAB is the next big thing Monks have going for them but again that is a heavily restricted ability being pretty much limited to using Kama's.

[enarian123]

May I ask why paladins are being called a weak class in this thread, I looked it over and folks are comparing builds and ideas like paladins are on the low end of the power game.   And while everyone is allowed an opinion, Paladins per power/level are one of the most broken classes in NWN.  

[Masque]

Paladin is quite strong.

I would rate the power levels as -

Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer, Druid as the top tier.

Paladins and Bards as the second tier

Ranger and Rogue as the third

Everything else as the fourth.

[The Red Mage]

Wizard, Cleric, HiPS, Charisma Paladin 15/ CoT 15, Dev Crit top tier

Everything else tier 2.

People with messy inventories tier 3.

[Garage Trashcan]

Pun Pun tier -4.