Suggested Improvement to the RP XP System

[Eruheran]

Jan 12, 2022 11:14:40 GMT -5 Meadows said:

If the staff and others feel that opening the daily ticks isn't worth it, you have to get more creative and ask for other forms of progression or ask how you can help them with the labor/justification of coding and placing it all in the module.

-Exploration XP
-Crafting XP (in which one only levels up within the crafting skill, not necessarily character level)

I really do like the idea of crafting xp. I've seen it elsewhere as well. It does seem like a lot of work to go into it but moving around maps to collect crafting ingredients to level up your crafting skills to me was a really good system that allowed players to invest deeply into it and be rewarded when they were able to make good potions and things like that.

I know that this server has the crafting skills as the usual levelling ones, but I much prefer a system based on ability modifiers where everyone can craft and get better at it so long as they put in the time and effort, they can get better and so on and so forth. It provided a really nice and rewarding time sink for players to progress in that was completely seperate to their character level.

[Garage Trashcan]

Jan 12, 2022 12:36:37 GMT -5 Eruheran said:

Jan 12, 2022 11:14:40 GMT -5 Meadows said:

If the staff and others feel that opening the daily ticks isn't worth it, you have to get more creative and ask for other forms of progression or ask how you can help them with the labor/justification of coding and placing it all in the module.

-Exploration XP
-Crafting XP (in which one only levels up within the crafting skill, not necessarily character level)

I really do like the idea of crafting xp. I've seen it elsewhere as well. It does seem like a lot of work to go into it but moving around maps to collect crafting ingredients to level up your crafting skills to me was a really good system that allowed players to invest deeply into it and be rewarded when they were able to make good potions and things like that.

I know that this server has the crafting skills as the usual levelling ones, but I much prefer a system based on ability modifiers where everyone can craft and get better at it so long as they put in the time and effort, they can get better and so on and so forth. It provided a really nice and rewarding time sink for players to progress in that was completely seperate to their character level.

Something like this is already in the works with no TBA. As expected, building something like this from more or less scratch and implementing it into a server as large as hours is extremely time consuming.

[Fox²]

Our current plans for a crafting system don't involve a skill/xp leveling system and is something the admins have said in the recent past as something we won't be doing here.

[lakhena]

I would like to see the RP XP script re-written so that RPing in engaged conversations will give you more than exploration.  

Just as a note, it's easier to get full RP XP for exploring for 2 hours than it is to be actively engaged in a conversation-based DM event for three hours.  That somehow feels like the script is not incentivizing correctly.

Edit: I have been observing this for a while now. It will take me 2.5 to 3.5 hours of talking to get the same full RP xp as walking around by myself for two hours.

[Terallis]

Perception of time can change, as the ticks come at the exact same intervals. In general, it takes about 2.5 hours if gaining ticks at each interval, fully. That doesn't change between adventuring/exploring and actively participating in RP with others.

[Jazzmyra]

Jan 12, 2022 18:29:53 GMT -5 lakhena said:

I would like to see the RP XP script re-written so that RPing in engaged conversations will give you more than exploration.  

Just as a note, it's easier to get full RP XP for exploring for 2 hours than it is to be actively engaged in a conversation-based DM event for three hours.  That somehow feels like the script is not incentivizing correctly.

Edit: I have been observing this for a while now. It will take me 2.5 to 3.5 hours of talking to get the same full RP xp as walking around by myself for two hours.

That... doesn't sound fair at all? What about characters like Windwalkers and others that would be -focused- on exploration over sitting in a group? I do get the issue with that exploring being more rewarding or rather quicker rewarding, but that's inevitable with the activity checks, I guess?

[lakhena]

Well, maybe we can call it an 'Active XP' bonus then, since 'RP XP' would suggest that it favors RP, not exploration?  I'm just pointing out that there's a huge discrepancy here. I'm closer to 2 hours for exploration vs 2.5 to 3.5 for engaged conversational RP.  It's an observation I've made for quite some time now that I'm just sharing here.  If that's how it's meant to be, then that's how it's meant to be.

[Garage Trashcan]

Ticks trigger ~7 minutes, regardless if you're RPing or exploring. So your time to cap might vary slightly as, sometimes, you'll get a tick right when you log in and others you might not get it until a few minutes later.


There are some small deviances I've seen others report that, if you stay within the same tile, a tick might not trigger regardless of what you're doing. There's not a guaranteed way to replicate it reliably, so I would recommend reporting such discrepancies to FW or Vince directly and posting in Bug Reports. If there is a quirk in the code causing it to be unreliable, that's the best way to handle it, not proposing a sweeping change of how the ticks are granted/calculated.

[Running With Razors]

Jan 12, 2022 13:31:55 GMT -5 Fox² said:

Our current plans for a crafting system don't involve a skill/xp leveling system and is something the admins have said in the recent past as something we won't be doing here.

Thank you for that!

[Edge]

Jan 13, 2022 8:58:27 GMT -5 lakhena said:

Well, maybe we can call it an 'Active XP' bonus then, since 'RP XP' would suggest that it favors RP, not exploration?

The problem here is more the idea that exploration isn't RP. You can do so without, if you want, but it's certainly not the assumption we make.

[snorriht]

It is a good sign that people are passionate about RP XP, and this server. I started writing this around 5:50am my time, so my apologises in advance if this post appears rough and simplistic.

I see five broad XP systems:

1. Open slather - kill monsters for gold/xp, get to max level as quickly as possible - it gets boring after the fifth character, and RP is non-existent.

2. Levelling by DM XP only - lots of fun and great if you're part of the inner circle - oh wait, there is no server anymore, as the DM XP-starved unwashed masses, leave.

3. DM Events - Lots of fun, but requires transparent rules, good organisation and a dedicated DM team to avoid favouritism.

4. Questing - XP is only gained from completing repeatable quests, not killing monsters. Can be exploited by camping, or other short-cuts.

5. XP gating - the XP fairy, completion of once-off quests to level up, or paying "training" gold to level up.

There is no perfect system, and a combination is likely required for a balance RP, progression, DM/Builder sanity, player motivations, and fun. I get it. It seems *ages* waiting for that RP tick to the next level. However I've also played on a server where levelling quests were required, and a party to attempt. Can't find people to help you? Too bad, you don't level. I've also been exposed to spending gold to "train" to the next level. And the training cost was so high it financially ruined characters. I remember one player having to sell his character's armour to level up!

The combination of the RP XP fairy and once-off quests are a good compromise, because in my experience, it could be worse.

Now it's time for the morning coffee, and wishing you a great day :-)

[psieco]

I belive that in holy days the xp can grow from 300 to 600 our even 1000

[haroshia]

As a newer player I will say the time seems pretty extreme.  I mean assuming no DM XP, you're looking at 634 days, or roughly 1585 hours of RP XP ticks needed to go from 15-30 with no quests to really help you (assuming you did all your quests pre-15 to get there).  There is no way to get around this with current systems.  I'm not sure how much DM XP is handed out generally, since in the few weeks I've been here I've managed to make one DM event as a participant and got 400 XP, and another as an observer and got 40.  If that's the standard, it seems like DM XP won't really make much of a dent in the time to get 30 besides knocking off a few days over the nearly two years it takes to get there.

To compare to other games on the market people coming here might play(I know, don't throw rotten fruit) WoW takes about 120 hours of playtime to get max level on the high end.  FFXIV is somewhere around 60 I think.  A typical RPG you can beat in 40-80 hours.  A game that's so long people typically burn out on it like Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is about 140-160 hours.  

If the goal is to get people hovering between 15-20 and have them make alts, then I think this system accomplishes that goal.  If the goal is to get people to develop a character over a longer time rather than having character churn, I think it fails.  I think it will create a pain point and cause burnout for people who are interested in seeing character advancement.  It's not as big of a deal because of the lack of PvP on here, but it can still feel frustrating, especially with gear being level locked acting as a such a big power gap between people of similar levels.  People like seeing numbers go up.  It's pushing against existing paradigms created by the hobby.  

I'm not sure how to propose a solution here that doesn't make me sound like I'm being negative or whining without knowing why this system is here.  What is the problem it's solving?  

[The Red Mage]

Feb 5, 2022 13:59:35 GMT -5 haroshia said:

As a newer player I will say the time seems pretty extreme.  I mean assuming no DM XP, you're looking at 634 days, or roughly 1585 hours of RP XP ticks needed to go from 15-30 with no quests to really help you (assuming you did all your quests pre-15 to get there).  There is no way to get around this with current systems.  I'm not sure how much DM XP is handed out generally, since in the few weeks I've been here I've managed to make one DM event as a participant and got 400 XP, and another as an observer and got 40.  If that's the standard, it seems like DM XP won't really make much of a dent in the time to get 30 besides knocking off a few days over the nearly two years it takes to get there.

To compare to other games on the market people coming here might play(I know, don't throw rotten fruit) WoW takes about 120 hours of playtime to get max level on the high end.  FFXIV is somewhere around 60 I think.  A typical RPG you can beat in 40-80 hours.  A game that's so long people typically burn out on it like Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous is about 140-160 hours.  

If the goal is to get people hovering between 15-20 and have them make alts, then I think this system accomplishes that goal.  If the goal is to get people to develop a character over a longer time rather than having character churn, I think it fails.  I think it will create a pain point and cause burnout for people who are interested in seeing character advancement.  It's not as big of a deal because of the lack of PvP on here, but it can still feel frustrating, especially with gear being level locked acting as a such a big power gap between people of similar levels.  People like seeing numbers go up.  It's pushing against existing paradigms created by the hobby.  

I'm not sure how to propose a solution here that doesn't make me sound like I'm being negative or whining without knowing why this system is here.  What is the problem it's solving?  

If you're in one event a month for that time period and get an average of 500xp(400 for short plots, 600 average, I'd say), you'd get 10,500 dmxp for those 21 months of playing. So, yeah, a majority of your DMXP comes from ticks. Some people are fortunate enough to have the time to play multiple events a month, depending on the DM calender, while others are unfortunate, playing alts, or not interested. 

But you will get a large majority of your DMXP through ticks and not event XP, yes, regardless if the intent is the opposite.