Monk improvement write up suggestion

[wilkins1952]

This was a potential idea I had for improving Monk, Anything in Bold is either changed or new. Would love to hear peoples ideas on this. Also to note is this also would be done to remove the Cross class restrictions regarding monk. Giving them more options to cross class as well.

Monk


Description: Monks are versatile warriors skilled at fighting without weapons or armor. Good-aligned monks serve as protectors of the people, while evil monks make ideal spies and assassins. Though they don't cast spells, monks channel a subtle energy, called ki. This energy allows them to perform amazing feats, such as healing themselves, catching arrows in flight, and dodging blows with lightning speed. Their mundane and ki-based abilities grow with experience, granting them more power over themselves and their environment. Monks suffer unique penalties to their abilities if they wear armor, as doing so violates their rigid oaths. Monks wearing armor lose their wisdom and level based armor class bonuses, their movement speed, and their additional unarmed attacks per round.

Alignment restrictions: No restrictions
Hit die: d8
Proficiencies: armor (robes), weapons (monk)
Skill points: 6 + int modifier ( (6 + int modifier) * 4 at 1st level)

Skills: Concentration, Craft Armor, Craft Trap, Craft Weapon, Discipline, Heal, Hide, Listen, Lore, Knowledge: Arcana, Religion, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot, Parry, Persuade, Tumble

Primary saving throw(s): fortitude, reflex, will
Base attack bonus: +3/4 levels

Special: every 3 levels Regardless of class, the monk's movement speed will increase by an additional 10%. Monk speed is granted at level 9 (Instead of 3)

- Monk AC Bonus (Wisdom) has been moved from 1st level to 7th level

Sneak attack 1d6 at 10th level 2d6 at 20th and 3d6 at 25th 4d6 at 30th Monk level

Ki blast Feat granted at level 15 MONK Twice per day the monk may channel her KI into a ranged blast that targets her enemies at random (Mechanically give them a spell like ability of IGMS Caster level equals Monk Level/2) This increases to 5 uses per day at 21st level of monk

dnd.arkalseif.info/feats/players-handbook-ii--80/kiblast--1712/index.html

Improved Evasion moved from 10th level to 14th

- Shadow Jump (As the Shadowdancer custom ability) granted at level 12. Uses do not stack with Shadowdancers ability.

- The Following weapons count for Monk UBAB.
Assassin Dagger
Dagger
Club
Katar
Kukri
Kukri 2
Quarterstaff
Sai
Wind Fire Wheel
Shortsword

[Nokteronoth]

No alignment restriction: What part of having a strict code and lifestyle leads to chaotic characters enjoying the class?

Special:
I don't think monks need *more* speed, it's already uncapped way higher than other characters.

Sneak attack:
Why does this belong on a monk? What part of their training leads them to be sneak attackers?

Ki Blast - Why not, I guess.

Improved Evasion - Why make this later?

Shortsword - Suppose doesn't matter too much to add.

~BR

[wilkins1952]

May 27, 2022 0:54:32 GMT -5 Nokteronoth said:

No alignment restriction: What part of having a strict code and lifestyle leads to chaotic characters enjoying the class?

Special:
I don't think monks need *more* speed, it's already uncapped way higher than other characters.

Sneak attack:
Why does this belong on a monk? What part of their training leads them to be sneak attackers?

Ki Blast - Why not, I guess.

Improved Evasion - Why make this later?

Shortsword - Suppose doesn't matter too much to add.

~BR

Removing the alignment restriction mostly cause say a Chaotic rebel that wanted to overthrow the crown in order to improve things for the commoners, While they might be chaotic in personality they could be focused and controlled in training and have a strict code of combat. (Thinking Aang from Avatar for a slight idea)

The Monk speed changes are mostly to stop people dipping into 3 levels of monk just for the speed the AC bonus while also rewarding those that invest in nine levels of monk by allowing them to keep the full speed progression that full monks get. Flavor mostly that does not change much mechanically.

Sneak attack. More so the monks speed catching people unaware in combat or using feign attacks to strike at a weak point. Would give them a small bonus to damage as well. especially if people were to invest in the full epic monk levels.

Improved Evasion moved so people cannot cross class and get that and keep epic spells while doing so.

[acleverpun]

May 27, 2022 1:04:34 GMT -5 wilkins1952 said:

Improved Evasion moved so people cannot cross class and get that and keep epic spells while doing so.

They already can not, CD multiclassing rules specify that at least half of your levels (on a monk character) have to be monk.

[wilkins1952]

Also to note is this also would be done to remove the Cross class restrictions regarding monk.

Suggestion I had would be to allow for Multiclassing hence the move of 10th to 14th level

[Vincent07]

We won't be changing the Monk multiclass rules.  What we have already is there as a simplification of FR's Monk Order requirements, which are even more restrictive as to what other classes Monks are allowed.

[DubiousScroll]

Honestly, the only thing Monk really needs is to have their BAB raised slightly.  It sort of sucks that you're priced into multiclassing if you want to be able to reliably hit anything in the higher levels.

Otherwise, I think the class is fine?  Good AC, decent HP pool, some neat RP flavor.

[The Red Mage]

I argued making them full BAB before the weapon changes, but I'm afraid if they're full BAB now, it would be pretty devastating for Monk/ IB/ X now. I had an idea if Ki Strike could give +1 untyped AB like Weapon of Choice. This would help unarmed monks instead of dagger from Monk/ IB/ X. But it won't help monks using kamas or any other weapon.

[Arya]

May 27, 2022 0:54:32 GMT -5 Nokteronoth said:

No alignment restriction: What part of having a strict code and lifestyle leads to chaotic characters enjoying the class?

Special:
I don't think monks need *more* speed, it's already uncapped way higher than other characters.

Sneak attack:
Why does this belong on a monk? What part of their training leads them to be sneak attackers?

Ki Blast - Why not, I guess.

Improved Evasion - Why make this later?

Shortsword - Suppose doesn't matter too much to add.

~BR            

Just going to say here...And almost all in agreement with Nokteronoth      short of a few things. Over all, though, most of this is just an elaboration of the points made.

Alignment Restriction: As one of the regular monk players, I disagree strongly with having the alignment restriction removed. I would be in support of having a martial artist based class for the purpose of trying to break away from treating monk as only the archetypal Shaolin monk (that inspired the class), so people can appreciate how martial arts is all over the world and not just in Eastern Asian (Analogs). As noted, monks are more than this. They are not just the martial artists people treat them as. They are meant to intentionally have a rigid code of conduct, and their life style is restricted based on their given traditions, orders, and sometimes even deities. Conceptually, they would be more the Rolemaster's Warrior Monk and not just "Monk" if we wanted to be real. 

Sneak Attack: While some monks can learn this in theory, best to honestly just have a multiclass monk/rogue combination for this. 

Ki Blast: Being I already have mixed feelings about how 3.0/3.5 language-wise relies heavily on cherry-picked Japanese exclusive concepts of energy as the universal for monk (ICly, Mai honestly uses prana and chakras due to her martial arts style being more Silat-based, while recognizing Ki is more widely known [to respect the game terminology/lore]), I rather not add to that by having another ability with "Ki" in it. I would be open to something else kind of similar if it can consider this. I just want to appreciate the diversity in these energy-based systems, really. 

Improved Evasion: What Nokt said. 

Shortsword: I am of the mindset that I would love to see Monk, and if any martial arts classes later come in, have more diversity in weaponry. It kind of bothers me they restricted their weapons to a very light archetypal weapons and does a disservice heavily to what the original inspirations even were. Granted, it would take a lot of time, effort, and coding that may not be on the top priority for the coding team here, and some digging into supplemental materials and seeing how they can be applied. I know in some other D&D materials they provide kits and options for additional weapons. Once more, though I don't see that happening anytime soon.

I am not against DubiousScroll     's suggestion to add one or two more BAB, but I don't necessarily want them to have full on BAB for the reasons The Red Mage      noted. 


Best,
Arya

[DubiousScroll]

Definitely don't want them to have full BAB but if they could cap at 15-17 that'd be great.

[The Red Mage]

Jun 4, 2022 1:32:00 GMT -5 DubiousScroll said:

Definitely don't want them to have full BAB but if they could cap at 15-17 that'd be great.

They are currently 3/4, so they cap at 15 pure.

[Vincent07]

There are only 3 choices for class BAB. 1/2, 3/4, and 1/1.  

Buffing Monk to full BAB would just be too much.