Beating the (Un)dead Horse: IC, OOC, Antagonism, Issues, etc

[dom101]

Sept 28, 2014 19:21:33 GMT -5 onivel said:

Sept 27, 2014 19:02:08 GMT -5 dom101 said:

My phone is about to die. I'm drunk as fuck at dinner. I just want to remind people.  Player organizations die all the time.   Don't like they way the player organization is being handled that you're currently in?  Uhhhhh.  Make your own. Steal members. Do shit.

Stop blaming others for your inability to spark interest in something you want to do. Stop trying to steal someone else's idea. Start your own. Entwine them if you want or don't. The opportunity is there regardless.

Bass left clockwork for that very reason.  Now he runs with the Stonehaven crew and guess what?  Clockwork is practically unheard of. It's not the organizations that matter but those they revolve around. I'm done for now. Food is here. I'll be on to fuck shit up later.

Clockwork was dead. I tried to revive it and ended up with a a small group of players. Half of them got run off the server for various reasons. I was left with a mostly dead group again. It ended up being a tough RL time for me and I could not put in the time to get it going again. I invited Bass a footstep in, I got further tied up with RL stuff and was mostly away from the server for several weeks. When I was able to get going again, Bass tried to strong arm Tene into handing it over. She didn't give in. Bass left to Stonehaven which was already being formed.

I didn't have time or energy to go back into rebuilding it so I passed its control on to Belorian. Up to here where it went form there.


Yes, guilds/troupes whatever have life cycles. Some grow, some fade. Sometimes you can hit it with the defibrillator and jump start it. Sometimes you just don't get a rhythm back. At the end of the day though, it takes a committed group, not a single person to make it work. 

He didn't try to strong-arm her.  He was the reason there was any active members.  The proof is in the pudding, as when he left ... interest dropped off completely.  My point is, there are some characters that are so gravitational that no matter what they're involved with, the group forms itself naturally.  I don't even put a name on what's going on with Stonehaven.  There's a reason we don't as a group.  It's malleable.  We don't expect people that don't live there to help if we needed it, but we don't generally refrain from inviting some of them along with us on excursions regardless.  

Bass is one such character.  Requiem was as well.  So was Peldszar.  Runai is also one such character (I've never even RP'd with him, but I know when he's around actively, there's an influx in elven RP).  So no, it doesn't take a committed group, but one person to be willing to put ideas out there and try to draw people to their story.

[bknuckles]

Is this still a thread about antagonism, or can we rename it to The Virtues and Pitfalls of Stonehaven et al?

[Fire Wraith]

Factional disagreements and jealousy have historically been a significant component of drama on CD. Note that I'm not saying that's the case here, merely pointing out that it is something that people take seriously as an area of concern.

And what I'm then trying to point out is that it really shouldn't be, because the only thing that makes factions what they are is player interest.

Yes, factions that are active tend to attract people who want to be involved with active groups. Chicken and egg, and all that. Conversely it can be hard to get things going when it's already at a dead stop, but that doesn't mean that there's anything stopping you.

[onivel]

Sept 28, 2014 19:48:03 GMT -5 dom101 said:

Sept 28, 2014 19:21:33 GMT -5 onivel said:

Clockwork was dead. I tried to revive it and ended up with a a small group of players. Half of them got run off the server for various reasons. I was left with a mostly dead group again. It ended up being a tough RL time for me and I could not put in the time to get it going again. I invited Bass a footstep in, I got further tied up with RL stuff and was mostly away from the server for several weeks. When I was able to get going again, Bass tried to strong arm Tene into handing it over. She didn't give in. Bass left to Stonehaven which was already being formed.

I didn't have time or energy to go back into rebuilding it so I passed its control on to Belorian. Up to here where it went form there.


Yes, guilds/troupes whatever have life cycles. Some grow, some fade. Sometimes you can hit it with the defibrillator and jump start it. Sometimes you just don't get a rhythm back. At the end of the day though, it takes a committed group, not a single person to make it work. 

He didn't try to strong-arm her.  He was the reason there was any active members.  The proof is in the pudding, as when he left ... interest dropped off completely.  My point is, there are some characters that are so gravitational that no matter what they're involved with, the group forms itself naturally.  I don't even put a name on what's going on with Stonehaven.  There's a reason we don't as a group.  It's malleable.  We don't expect people that don't live there to help if we needed it, but we don't generally refrain from inviting some of them along with us on excursions regardless.  

Bass is one such character.  Requiem was as well.  So was Peldszar.  Runai is also one such character (I've never even RP'd with him, but I know when he's around actively, there's an influx in elven RP).  So no, it doesn't take a committed group, but one person to be willing to put ideas out there and try to draw people to their story.

Yes, when Bass left the ones Bass brought with him left with him. That's not the point. You missed my point entirely and actually helped make it for me. My point was that for long term survival of a group you need more than just a Bass, a Peldszar or a Runai. It takes more than a single person committed to the group to make it last. At least in Stonehaven you have a core of multiple people who are pushing to make it work which is why it will likely survive more long term than others when RL or whatever takes one away for a while. Its why like groups such as the Blue Thorns lasted for as long as they did. We had a larger group who all wanted to keep it together. Even when the two initial founders left, it kept on for quite a while until slowly attrition of members and OOC issues caused members to leave making it fade away.

[Garage Trashcan]

[Nymera]

If I was admin I'd just ban all of you.

Players, ha!  PWs would be great if it wasn't for all the damn players!

*shakes cane*

[Mystic Warden]

If play an a-hole character you can be the victim of your own success very easily.

You play a real mean, real nasty, total a-hole character, to the hilt. Worth an Academy Award. And guess what? People will belive in it. Your act becomes reality. Your excellent RP skills are your undoing.

I think the reason people might hate Dom (even not knowing him) is that they only got interaction from him through the IC RP of Bass. Which is -by design- very mean. It would take quite a lot of balancing to even it out. By being OOCly kind to the other players, or by playing other, non a-hole characters. To project not only the mean, bad-tempered side. If somebody saw the movie 'Tropical Storm' he could remember the advice Robert Downey Jr. gave to Ben Stiller: don't be a 100% retarded. Words to live by.

Please don't even start to say 'this is only a game' and 'this should not be taken so seriously'. People are not working that way. If they were, there would be no such things as racism or prejudice on Earth, which is obviously not so. If somebody gets only negative experiences, negative emotions, these will rub on him, even if it is only a game. And slowly it changes his perception.

I have no OOC issue with Dom. Sindel and Bass had some IC situations, which I consider strictly IC. My only advice to him: try to project more positive emotions into your RP to even out the negative flood, which is Bass. Take more OOC effort to be kind to the other players, or maybe play a character who is a kind fellow. That could help restore the balance. Do not change Bass, it would mean the death of that concept. But there are other ways to get the balance of perception restored.

For the other players: try to steel yourself a bit. I fully understand that it can be hard to handle this and 99% of the people actually can't walk away unscatched from such a flood of negativity, even if it is only in a game. But at least you should try it.

[ermmm]

Wheaton's Law.

[dom101]

Sept 29, 2014 10:44:40 GMT -5 ermmm said:

Wheaton's Law.

Some of us RP it.  Others just are.

The people that seem convinced I'm a dick ooc'ly are those that are constantly trying to change the way I RP and assume my refusal to do so, is me being a dick.  I'm not sorry for the way in which I defend myself, when someone can't be assed to differentiate between IC and OOC.

[The Red Mage]

Can someone summarize where we started to where we are now to see what kind of progress this has made?

[SOC_Tessa]

Sept 29, 2014 10:36:25 GMT -5 Mystic Warden said:

For the other players: try to steel yourself a bit. I fully understand that it can be hard to handle this and 99% of the people actually can't walk away unscatched from such a flood of negativity, even if it is only in a game. But at least you should try it.

I can be guilty of walking away scratched/hurt from time to time. I have little problems steeling against isolated negativity, but if an entire group in one sitting levels that negativity (even knowing it is IC), it's hard to handle it without enough measure of positivism to offset it.

It's hard to describe, being as I've rarely hit any points of outright exclusion on the server. It's sort of like feeling like being a scene extra and rather than enhancing a scene, maybe it was better off if you weren't involved. Getting the feeling you were included along on something out of a sense of obligation to invite you rather than actually being wanted along.

There are great suggestions in this thread, despite being a beaten horse, but many can be easier said than done.

I'm an extreme introvert. The comfort level is not there to even send an out of character message if I'm not sent one first. I have difficulty asking for things, stating opinions, or even showing that anything is ever wrong. I oft put up a false face when I'm bothered, attempting to "steel" it. It's not easy for my personality to "form a group and do something" as I'm naturally inclined to follow instead of lead. This naturally leads me to cling to my comfort zones and familiar faces. It's also why my original CD character is a concept that is so far removed from me - someone constantly excitable, eager to meet new faces, outgoing and almost void of discrimination. It works when I get the momentum, but when I meet an overly rigid wall of resistance, I find I can't keep up the character portrayal and find myself withdrawn and quieted as I unconsciously channel "me".

That's on me, I suppose, and my problem for being socially inept and awkward. Maybe not even solvable or relatable, but I suppose I just wanted to point out that there are people naturally ill suited to solve the problem in suggested ways just as there are those who can easily do so.

[Garage Trashcan]

Sept 29, 2014 12:01:38 GMT -5 The Red Mage said:

Can someone summarize where we started to where we are now to see what kind of progress this has made?

Presumably nowhere, since I'm pretty sure the prime offenders would just avoid this thread with a passion.

[Deleted]

Sept 29, 2014 20:11:03 GMT -5 Garage Trashcan said:

Sept 29, 2014 12:01:38 GMT -5 The Red Mage said:

Can someone summarize where we started to where we are now to see what kind of progress this has made?

Presumably nowhere, since I'm pretty sure the prime offenders would just avoid this thread with a passion.

Pretty much.

[SOC_Tessa]

I don't think it's respectful to sign up for a quest, proceed to openly antagonize the group from the get-go, and then leave the options of:
-quit the group ("You knew who was signed up for the quest, so you shouldn't have come")
-take the abuse in-character and letting those forceful characters take over (not fun for the group as a whole)
-stand up to the antagonism, only to see it used as a convenient vehicle to PvP
-split the party (read: never split the party)

Our DMs spend time to think up, develop a story, spend time to create all the quest-specific assets, and spend time to run these preparations and interact with a group of players all at once. It's disrespectful to crap on that and derail it because you personally feel like egging someone on in order to have some PvP.

I was hesitant to join up because of some those who signed on, but I took the chance that things wouldn't derail based on the full compliment of players. Lesson learned, I suppose.

[dom101]

Oct 5, 2014 15:53:13 GMT -5 SOC_Tessa said:

I don't think it's respectful to sign up for a quest, proceed to openly antagonize the group from the get-go, and then leave the options of:
-quit the group ("You knew who was signed up for the quest, so you shouldn't have come")
-take the abuse in-character and letting those forceful characters take over (not fun for the group as a whole)
-stand up to the antagonism, only to see it used as a convenient vehicle to PvP
-split the party (read: never split the party)

Our DMs spend time to think up, develop a story, spend time to create all the quest-specific assets, and spend time to run these preparations and interact with a group of players all at once. It's disrespectful to crap on that and derail it because you personally feel like egging someone on in order to have some PvP.

I was hesitant to join up because of some those who signed on, but I took the chance that things wouldn't derail based on the full compliment of players. Lesson learned, I suppose.

I think it's disrespectful for people that can't be assed to sign up on a forum for a quest, bitch and moan about joining it only to be intentionally an irritation toward characters that signed up for it in advance.  This in no way refers to you personally.

As for my part, I play a toxic character.  I didn't use it as a convenient vehicle to pvp.  But if the shoe fits, I'm gonna wear that fucking thing till the sole falls off.  I bowed out of an event that was turning my toxic character to act against what I intended for.  I'm not going to degrade my RP to put up with people I have zero tolerance for.  IC or OOC.  I apologize if my doing as I was asked, ruined an event for anyone else that was pre-signed on.  The others?  I couldn't care less.

This was the very epitome of why I don't bother signing on to events on C/D.  It was also my first sign on, as stated.  It will be the last.