Cleric Builds

[Ryoko Honda]

Hello CD. What would be a good cleric build? Including dex based rapier weirder or the seldrine. Any ideas?
This is for a friend yet starting on CD

[Edge]

Dex builds are EXTREMELY hard to do well with Clerics in NWN. Their spells don't tend to supplement it much - they don't get access to Cat's Grace except through only one or two domains, for example, and don't get a lot of the other spells that aid a finesse fighter that Wizards/Sorcerers get. Dex-based clerics also tend to have to sacrifice their strength to pay for it, making them do far less damage in melee and giving them difficulty in carry capacity. They don't get Sneak Attack or any other sort of precision damage bonus to make up for the loss, like Rogues and Rangers.

Clerics also get a fairly limited array of weapons, though Elf does get around that some with their free proficiencies.

NWN clerics also tend to be poor straight casters, since their spells usually don't do much damage and have fairly limited side-effects. It's really hard to make a pure caster cleric in NWN, believe me I've checked, unless you're making a Theurge, and even then you tend to rely on your Wizard side for the majority of your damage-dealing and crowd-control spells, while your Cleric spells tend to be more focused on healing and buffs.

The best NWN Cleric builds, bar none, are typically Strength-based, wearing the best armor they can get (full plate or adamantine plate), and either sword-and-board or using a two-handed weapon. The former tend to be more tanky, having high AC and generally able to take a lot of hits, while the latters are more damage-focused.

[goodapollo]

I've honestly found caster clerics to be pretty doable. Sit behind your summons (or your tanky team-mates) and burn through spells. They have the breadth of op stuff that a wizard will, but having the only insta-kill evo spell in the game on top of some pretty good pressure in the evo/conj line makes them at least viable.

I actually prefer this, power-wise, to the straight up battle-cleric types, since you can just drop divine power/favor for +10 AB and an extra attack on a caster cleric anyway, and using your entire spell list at the 'right' dcs means you're far less reliant on short term buffs. (Granted, I'm guessing the tendency towards enemy ACs being at least first-hittable with 3/4ths ab classes sticks around for the whole of the leveling trip, so..)

ANYWAY. A dex-based cleric is going to rely heavily on short term buffs, moreso than a regular battlecleric who will anyway. Your 'real' goal is to either hit a +9 dexterity modifier, or find a combination of dex/armor that equals out to +9 anyway. (Not having cat's grace isn't a dealbreaker. Silas at using the light-blue stuff hits +10 dex easy before buffing, and clerics have a much broader range of gear options since their spells emulate equipment at a reasonable rate.) So realistically you only 'need' a +3 dex modifier.

I'm not going to do a point-by-point because there's way better guides to making clerics out there, and anyway I'm not sure what the other RP requirements would be but, absolute requirements:
Uncanny Dodge
Extend Spell.
Practiced Spellcaster is a nice boon.

You really, really want uncanny dodge as soon as physically possible, and weapon finesse before you start meleeing. You'll be a bit behind a strength-cleric of similar build (Cleric/Utility Class/Uncanny Dodge class is a popular one across all servers, and, frankly, DND as a whole), but 'slightly less optimized cleric' is still one of the best (non-optimized wizard) things d20 stuff has to offer.

Edit: Have they considered zen archery? Caster cleric with zen archery is pretty killer.

[Nokteronoth]

The question isn't about the build, it's about what you're good at. What does your friend normally play? What do they enjoy?

People are shit at clerics, typically, because they have NO idea how the spells work or stack. They don't know how to plan their books ahead for a long dungeon, or that you can spontaneously cast Heals. (Even if your skill with kits can be amazing.) More people yet still haven't figured out that their character sheet lies to them when you cap out your +saves or +AB.

DEX clerics tend to be, in my experience, pretty awful unless you're mixing it with Monk, which you can't do here without monk taking up a majority of the levels. The gear on CD is horribly suited to it, as well.

Does your friend have -any- experience playing Clerics in NWN? If not, I'd suggest first going over to the Epic Character Builder's Guild and looking at some of the play style guides that the old man and some of the others put together.

Need specifics before I can comment much.

~BR

[goodapollo]

You dont learn without trying and failing. Besides that, not playing something you want because it's not super optimal, and instead playing the best thing you can find prebuilt is a sure ticket to hating a character.

And clerics really aren't any harder to play than any other class, what? Beyond that, CD is one of the easier servers I've played, not that this is a bad thing, so whatever flavor of cleric is the most fun for them is the best idea. Now, setting a build to your concept is harmless, of course.

[MyOwnDestiny]

I play a ranger/cleric who is a focused in archery and have never had any issues with ability to grind alone or to fit into a party. No, she is not a tank and can't really take on massive uber monsters alone, but the point of this game is to roleplay. Just as in life, we must find others that have the skills that we might not to get the full package. Teamwork! That being said, I build for RP and from RP, meaning that my toons are in no way uber. They simply are what they evolve into. What makes sense for them. No matter if the feat has any real mechanical bearing. For me, it is more rewarding to know that I stuck true to the character makeup rather than optimizing game mechanics for the 'best build ever!'

Some good things I have found in the past for this build however, and one in particular that I'm looking forward to on this server in particular. A multiclass cleric has the option of Practiced Spellcasting, which ups the caster level by 4. Being a DEX based cleric is also not difficult as there are so many combos of armor and combat feats that will get you to the highest AC possible for your build. The mechanics of it are easy enough to figure out if you just sit down and work it out using the regular progression method and taking into account items you may find IG (i.e. an amulet containing the feat Uncanny Dodge). Dodge, mobility, expertise, and yes zen archery are fantastic. Zen archery will only work if your toon is equally WIS based. If he/she is pure DEX, don't bother. Also, yes weapon focus and an absolute must is Weapon Finesse. Please remember if choosing Finesse, it only works with certain weapons. Also, race does come into play in a very small aspect, as elves and half-elves have a better chance of using more DEX weapons and the like, to optimization.

From the caster point of it, yes, please learn your spells and make use of your quick slots for spontaneous heal/cure spells. What that means is that you don't have to memorize those spells but can cast them if you need to, though it will take away a spell of the accompanying level at random. I would recommend putting plenty of skill points in Heal anyhow, for use of kits.

Ultimately, it is all about the journey, the story. Each experience is something that will develop and altar your toon's perspective of the world around them. How you adapt and overcome is up to you but I find the most reward in including others where I might be lacking in a particular area. No one character is going to be amazing at everything. That's what lends to immersion and realism, imo, and makes each character such a joy to get to know (my own and others).

I hope this helped with some mechanics as well as perspective. Please feel free to PM me if you have anything more you would like to discuss, or hit me up IG. Always willing to help. Happy gaming!

MOD

[enarian123]

Dex based clerics = pointless.    Yes you can make one for Rp purpose, but a good cleric of whatever his name father of elves carries a longsword and lays about with it to defend elven people.    As far as building, 9th level spells and the rest is taste.   Due to their spells clerics are one of the easiest classes to build, and have some of the most options for preferences without making them awful.    All this said, if for some reason you're rp is based around the dex based cleric there are two builds for it that are doable, but won't take off until level 16ish for the most part.    I always love building Rp concepts, so if you want any help juicing one up let me know.


For Chaos!    -Rebel    

[goodapollo]

I'm really not seeing the 'useless dex clerics'idea. I've played them. They're maybe suboptimal (on a tiny scale) compared to a str/cha travel/war cleric running haste, divine might, war domain, battletide, etc, but. Not compared to the rest of the game?

SPOILER: Click to show

 Mathwise, if you're wanting to run a battlecleric with the elf race you're using a rapier. No offense to longswords, rapiers are just mathematically better. (Longswords do on average 1.5? more damage for a lower crit rate). If you want any kind of level 9 spells, at any kind of effectiveness, you'll be running bare minimum 19 wis, probably 20 for that extra modifier point. Your combat stat will be secondary.

Let's pretend you can hit that 20 base wis and also hit that 20 base str or dex, while noting that elves will have an easier time of the dex. So a 5 str mod base vs a 5 dex mod base.
Of note here: It is hellaciously easy with the right gear, even on a non-caster, to hit +12 str, dex, and wis. Silas ~can with some finagling and he's a level 13 monk for goodness sake. A higher tier cleric could manage. So, all things being equal, the dex cleric will do 5 less damage per hit on average (25 over the course of a hasted, divine power'd full attack) with the same AB and- 5 dex mod+6 dex mod from gear: 2 more AC than fullplate. As if it matters. I'm not counting crits because A. that's a can of worms and B. I can't find my build calculator on the new laptop. Also I've just realized on checking that some of my character's gear choices are redundant. Go me!

If 25 damage at full buff is enough to sink your cleric build, it's sunk before you decide between dex or str. Really the only thing to make them 'pointless' is if you get upset at not seeing Big Rainbow Numbers every hit, or really really want a pure cleric with no rogue dumps. (Of which you only really need 3, pre-epic.) You have to take weapon finesse, I guess, but I mean. Whatever. It's one feat. Battleclerics aren't exactly falling apart with overwhelming options.

So, again, you'll really be fine. Or, your friend will be fine. I promise. Maybe at higher levels the difficulty ramps up to like, Tomb of Horrors level past 15 or so, but given the number of characters past fifteen, you'll have a party to look after you. And gear, and cleric stuff, and you'll have figured your class out by then or given up. It's not like clerics are any harder than wizards.

Hell, start out with a level of rogue so you can pick up elf domain. (Or can domains be leto'd?) It looks freaking killer.

[ladybug]

Yes, domains can be LETO'd if you provide the feat numbers for the domain swap.

[goodapollo]

This has me wanting a cleric, now. Dang.

[enarian123]

I said pointless, I never said useless.   I also followed it up with the point that there are builds that make it work.   In the end however, it is a sacrifice of ability for RP.   It doesn't do anything better.   It's the same as a str based Bladesinger using a longswrod vs a dex using a rapier.    Both can work, but the longsword user will always be playing catch up.    But if it's the PC's character concept, go for it and I'll help build it.



And for the record, I'm never against builds that do something for RP purpose.   I only point things out cause often I've had people ask why something didn't work not understanding what they where doing wrong.   If a player knows they are sacrificing something for Rp they can normally lessen the impact the choice has on a toon's IG ability.   But if they have no idea, they often end up unhappy with the character.   That is what I want to avoid if possible.