Stuff That Went Down, Voss, and Moving Forward

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 30, 2016 18:51:28 GMT -5 Edge said:

I really have nothing to add that Bella hasn't already said, so consider this just an echo of everything she posted from me.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 30, 2016 19:33:22 GMT -5 Not Batman said:

I initially was going to leave this thread alone until I saw Bella's post.

I'm one of those people who gave you change after chance and each time was just met with more vitriol. The harassment I had seen from you was something I could never condone, or sit idly by while it happened. I knew a few players who would literally nigh vomit from anxiety when you had logged on due to the amount of abuse they had faced. At times, their treatment was looked at not only as unacceptable in a game, but unacceptable towards another human being. You admit to wanting to try and making things better, and that is fine, but I gave you one chance, two chances, three chances and every time I was felt feeling like the fool for telling people that you "want to change and be friendlier".

After an admin moderated discussion with you, I was prepared to give you yet another chance. I stayed clear because I wanted to let things settle and the flames die down, but the next thing I hear out of you is a rather spiteful bit of criticism on the forums and even more in other mediums. I hadn't talked to you since but had attempted to stick my neck out for you and defend you and got repaid with once again feeling like people don't change. I'm one of those people who are debating leaving over your return just in the hope that it might calm things, and in part I have left over you before.

In regards to wanting to make things better with others, the people you upset the most and acted the worst towards have yet to see any kind of attempt made to make them feel better about you being back. If you are really honest about wanting to fix your previous mistakes, you need to start with the people you upset the most. All I am seeing in this post is that you are claiming ignorance to your own wrong doings, and as Bella put it before me (kudos to her) it is not an excuse and frankly (pardon my french) it's bullshit. There are going to be people who don't want to talk to you, who don't want to make things better because we've tried before and are sick of trying and tired of handing you the rope to hang us with.

You spread a lot of very hurtful lies about people here, myself included. You've done harm to peoples reputations and made low blows that shouldn't have been thrown, but you did. So pardon my honesty, because I refuse to sit quiet anymore and just leave whenever problems come my way on this server, but I am one of those people who will not give you another chance to make me feel like shit. I will not sit around and let it happen to good people who are here to have fun. We, as a community, have been incredibly generous to you and Clockwork, and that generosity has been returned with harassment, insults, and having to stop playing a game we all love with our friends.

The only thing I want to point out is that I was never -allowed- to know who the ones hurt most were. The Admins chose to conceal that information from me. I'm sorry I have not been able to attempt more personal amends because of that.

I have done what I can to try to make things right. This is a first step, not something I expect to be all that it takes. I'm willing to do whatever the ones hurt worst want, but you have to talk to me. You have to tell me. You can't simply expect that I have a magic fix.

What you describe above is -exactly- the same situation I was in. I was hearing lies both IC and OOC about my characters and about me as a person. It -hurt-, on that we both can agree, and so it is that much more important to me to stop this pain for those who were hurt by me.

We have both been very grateful for the help the server gave us with the flood. We posted as much at the time. I'm only sad that also at that time other things were going on that overshadowed that. You're right in that it seems ungrateful, and it was. I'm sorry for that. I truly do not know what else to say.

I did not create this thread to make excuses or to "claim ignorance". I made it to be honest and open a discourse. I'm sorry that after having been harmed so much you are done and unwilling to work with me. I understand why you and some others may feel that way, and all I can say is that I'm sorry, I'm willing to do whatever it takes to take that pain away from you, and I want for all of us to get through this.

Thank you for taking the time to post, and again, I'm sorry for the pain I've caused you. I hope that eventually you will believe the sincerity of this gesture.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 30, 2016 19:48:01 GMT -5 Support said:

Chiming in to remind people that NWN as a community is a very small, dying breed. As a newer player, it is already extremely hard to find people to do things with and most of the servers just aren't for me because either there is: a long catch up experience which is watered down by many hours of solo play(I still like to play other games for solo-enjoyment), groups that feel strongly toward one another one way or another, people who are very sensitive to change, or people who are very sensitive in general. I just don't have the time to learn a new setting, either, so, it's mostly FR servers for me. Hyper sensitivity is why I tend to avoid forums these days.

I say this because most servers are empty. CD is blessed enough to have the average player base it does after so long. These two players have been kind to me so far ICly and OOCly, and I appreciate that. It means nothing to any of you who may have experienced grief, but sometimes the more mature thing is to look passed personal grievances and look forward to the health of your community. Some people really just want the best for the server, and the best way they can offer that is either critique on the forums, looking out for others who are not comfortable voicing their opinion, or playing their character as they see best to bring vibrance to our pastime. How people act can offend someone or hurt their feelings, but it's best to be transparent about those feelings and speak with the person in a level-headed manner that's not brief; and I see that's what you have done in response to OP's request.

I look forward to RPing with each of you, I just hope that I don't see any of this bleed ICly. Fracturing an already small playerbase endangers more than just the setting. Please remain level-headed and kind is all I can ask. Seeing these kinds of threads as a newer player can be disheartening.

Thanks for posting and for your concern, Support. I've enjoyed interacting with you immensely in-game.

Please don't worry about this thread fracturing the server or bleeding through in-game. There will be some harsh things said here. A lot of people have every right to get their grief out. It's why I made this public. People were hurt by me, and while some of it was unintentional, some of it wasn't. I know some will not forgive me. I know some will find reasons why I'm not being sincere or why this is somehow disingenuous. Even so, the reality that we as a community would experience without this thread would be far more unpleasant than the momentary pain or reputation loss I may suffer for whatever's said here.

For the record to those who read posts like @bella's and Not Batman's please remember that I do not want this to be a thread for arguing. Please do not try to defend me - especially if you are not personally aware of the circumstances that have brought them to feel the way they do. That isn't productive, and it will only reopen old wounds.

This is not a thread for pitying me. It's not a thread to divide the server. I did people wrong, and they deserve a chance to get those feelings out - and, if they desire to, they deserve a chance to help me find peace with them. If my replies or posts up to this point have made it seem like I'm claiming innocence of making people feel poorly, I'm not.

It's reality that some may come here with grievances that are either imagined or not the whole truth, but even if they do there is a pain that motivates those actions - and it is my fault that pain is there. Some will not be satisfied with a mere apology. I'm willing to do more, but I will do nothing until the aggrieved tell me what they want done. To do otherwise runs too great a risk of making a poor decision and hurting someone else or hurting someone again.

Thank you for contributing to the thread, Support. I look forward to rping with you in-game again soon.

[Not Batman]

You can want to change things all you want and tell us that you mean it, but there is a point-of-no-return, you hit that point with a lot of people. There is always going to be people who will not want to forgive. You only get so many chances, and you burned through them already. As for not knowing who you hurt the most, you seemed to know well enough with things you've said on these forums in the past. All I am seeing here is you brushing the blame off, swatting away people's honest concerns and grievances by painting yourself as the victim because we are not willing to give you a fourth or fifth chance. Now, as you have done in the past, you will likely attempt to spin this in some fashion against myself or others, but in doing so will just prove you've not changed. I am not sorry for what I have said here, I see no point apologizing for giving you the truth.

[realityjumper]

Bella speaks for many of us. As to why names were not brought forward, many asked not to be named because of fear you would go after them. Not that Voss would be any worse than he was (which was pretty bad at that time), but the OOC. I myself witnessed DM conversations where you would (maybe unknowingly) respond to other DMs in ways that demeaned their own comments, disregarded their comments, or outright told them they were the ones that were wrong. I myself was on the receiving end of that so many times I stopped talking within DM communications while you were part of it.

In game, Voss was always very kind to Celi and to Tindra. I appreciated this. The other characters I had however were not treated well. One incident in particular that I recall was with Beryl. I came into the square just in time to hear Mouse saying "he always treats a lady like a lady," and I thought maybe things would be okay with Beryl. Without any communication to find out that Beryl was an upper class, lady-like person, he turned and on first look at her said, "oh look, a pink cunt." I semi-retired that character that day, offended by the entire thing.

I will also say that I avoid high conflict in game and out of game... at my doctor's orders. Having repeated attacks and being made to feel horrible back then was detrimental to my physical health. I play to get away from stress and high drama, not to be stressed out and wondering if there was going to be verbal attacks surrounding a game.

I'll tell people now (not for sympathy, but for clarification) that I had survived a form of cancer not once, but 4 times in the last ten years, that is only brought on by extremely high levels of stress. The game was never to cause; it was something going on otherwise. All the same, I have been told repeatedly by oncology, radiology, and many other specialists that I am to avoid high stress.  

I was one of them that wanted my name left out of things because of this. I prefer to deal with things myself, but when all attempts had ended as I mentioned above, I knew you weren't willing to listen at that time. Even writing this now almost makes it hard to breath for me. I'm trusting that since all other comments have been polite that any response to me will be as well.

The few communications we've had since your return have been decent, which I appreciate. I hope things will continue to improve, but as many have said, it will take time to rebuild that trust.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 30, 2016 22:31:52 GMT -5 Not Batman said:

You can want to change things all you want and tell us that you mean it, but there is a point-of-no-return, you hit that point with a lot of people. There is always going to be people who will not want to forgive. You only get so many chances, and you burned through them already. As for not knowing who you hurt the most, you seemed to know well enough with things you've said on these forums in the past. All I am seeing here is you brushing the blame off, swatting away people's honest concerns and grievances by painting yourself as the victim because we are not willing to give you a fourth or fifth chance. Now, as you have done in the past, you will likely attempt to spin this in some fashion against myself or others, but in doing so will just prove you've not changed. I am not sorry for what I have said here, I see no point apologizing for giving you the truth.

...I never asked you to apologize. -I- apologized. And I have already stated multiple times that I do not intend to brush off blame. I'm trying to address people's honest concerns and grievances to the best of my ability, but it's very difficult if you continue to insist I'm lying.

I won't ask you not to post, but you still have yet to really offer me anything I can do to make you feel better or to make things right, and in fact you've said multiple times that there is nothing I can do. The point of this thread is to open a conversation about what I can do to improve how people feel, not to provide a rant session against me. You have a right to your feelings, and a right to express them as you have done, but continually bringing them up again and again isn't constructive and isn't going to make anyone feel any better - least of all you, yourself.

It is fine if you have no intention of giving me another chance. I understand that. I'm saddened by it - truly - but you've made it clear that I can't change that. If you don't mind, though, unless you can provide something constructive that I can use to help improve relations between us please don't bog the thread down saying the same thing in multiple posts.

If there is truly nothing I can do to fix things between us, then there doesn't seem to be a purpose to us continuing to interact as that will just make us both feel worse.

Regardless, thank you for taking the time to share your feelings. If you can think of something I can do to fix things, I'm more than willing to attempt it. If not, I hope you'll find fun on the server with others, and I will respectfully not interact with you OOC or IC to the best of my ability. It seems there's little else I can do if you refuse to accept the sincerity of this thread.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 30, 2016 23:01:38 GMT -5 realityjumper said:

Bella speaks for many of us. As to why names were not brought forward, many asked not to be named because of fear you would go after them. Not that Voss would be any worse than he was (which was pretty bad at that time), but the OOC. I myself witnessed DM conversations where you would (maybe unknowingly) respond to other DMs in ways that demeaned their own comments, disregarded their comments, or outright told them they were the ones that were wrong. I myself was on the receiving end of that so many times I stopped talking within DM communications while you were part of it.

In game, Voss was always very kind to Celi and to Tindra. I appreciated this. The other characters I had however were not treated well. One incident in particular that I recall was with Beryl. I came into the square just in time to hear Mouse saying "he always treats a lady like a lady," and I thought maybe things would be okay with Beryl. Without any communication to find out that Beryl was an upper class, lady-like person, he turned and on first look at her said, "oh look, a pink cunt." I semi-retired that character that day, offended by the entire thing.

I will also say that I avoid high conflict in game and out of game... at my doctor's orders. Having repeated attacks and being made to feel horrible back then was detrimental to my physical health. I play to get away from stress and high drama, not to be stressed out and wondering if there was going to be verbal attacks surrounding a game.

I'll tell people now (not for sympathy, but for clarification) that I had survived a form of cancer not once, but 4 times in the last ten years, that is only brought on by extremely high levels of stress. The game was never to cause; it was something going on otherwise. All the same, I have been told repeatedly by oncology, radiology, and many other specialists that I am to avoid high stress.  

I was one of them that wanted my name left out of things because of this. I prefer to deal with things myself, but when all attempts had ended as I mentioned above, I knew you weren't willing to listen at that time. Even writing this now almost makes it hard to breath for me. I'm trusting that since all other comments have been polite that any response to me will be as well.

The few communications we've had since your return have been decent, which I appreciate. I hope things will continue to improve, but as many have said, it will take time to rebuild that trust.

Thank you for the earnest post, and I am truly sorry about your experiences with me as a DM and in DM chat. To put it simply, I never should've sought to become a DM. I realize that now. I may be a decent storyteller, but there's a certain level of people skills required as a DM - and even as a part of a team in general - that I simply lack in a space where I'm trying to relax. That is -not- an excuse for the behaviors you witnessed, mind, but a recognition looking back that, indeed, I could've done much more to make others feel comfortable and much less to silence their differing opinions. I truly have no excuse for my behavior back then, but I am genuinely sorry that I didn't realize these things sooner.

I'm also incredibly sorry to find out that you retired a character because of something one of mine said. I severely underestimated the impact of that word - and indeed, of much of Voss' rp - but knowing that I caused someone to stop playing a character actually makes me feel a little sick. I would ask you to bring her back and find fun with her again, but I understand if you don't want to. Not Batman has mentioned in his posts that there is a point one passes with their actions that you cannot come back from, and I think what you describe is an example of that point. Having made you feel that way is inexcusable, and all I can do now is promise it won't happen again and be more mindful in the future of the effects of that kind of rp.

I know it has taken you a lot of courage to be able to approach me as openly as you have. I'm glad you have done so, and I thank you. I hope in time you won't feel so uneasy when dealing with me, but I know it will take time. It means a lot to me that you have already tried so hard and done so much. It's more than I deserve.

And to clarify again, I do not expect this to be an overnight thing. I don't expect this thread to fix everything - or even most. It's the first step in a long road to repairing a lot of damage. I appreciate all who have come here so far to take part in this first step, but most of all I appreciate those like you, realityjumper who have gone so far outside of your comfort zone for the sake of helping me undo the pain I've caused. You are the reason that I made this thread in the first place. You're the reason I want to be part of this community. So many of you gave so much to us when we lost everything, and now you continue to give even when I don't deserve it.

Thank you.

[onivel]

As I said in Tells the other night, we don't have to agree with each other's view to still treat each other with respect and kindness. I must say the Mouse and Voss I have seen since your return have been much more approachable to interact with and lacking of the vitriol that I had seen previously. Enough so that the I am sure the newer players who had not seen them before are probably thinking " WTF is this all about?". I think that is a good thing and I hope to see more of the same.

I have tried to take that same route with my PCs and keep everything purely IC. Those that never new the Mouse and Voss from before will and have treated them by what they see. Hence, the welcome and ease that Dani invited Voss over to the gathering and conversation that night. That was her nature and she knew no different than to act that way. The ones who have history, well history is there and not to be ignored. They will of course will be more leary. People can and do change, but the convincing that the change is real can take time. Hence Bahv being more guarded in her words and actions with them. 


Oni

Edit updated. 

[Not Batman]

...I never asked you to apologize. -I- apologized. And I have already stated multiple times that I do not intend to brush off blame. I'm trying to address people's honest concerns and grievances to the best of my ability, but it's very difficult if you continue to insist I'm lying.

I never implied that you asked me to apologize, I am making the point that I mean what I am saying and will hold to them and do not feel that I am being overly harsh or malicious by speaking them.

I won't ask you not to post, but you still have yet to really offer me anything I can do to make you feel better or to make things right, and in fact you've said multiple times that there is nothing I can do. The point of this thread is to open a conversation about what I can do to improve how people feel, not to provide a rant session against me. You have a right to your feelings, and a right to express them as you have done, but continually bringing them up again and again isn't constructive and isn't going to make anyone feel any better - least of all you, yourself.

This is far from me just ranting at you about what you have done wrong. It is showing you the point you are at. You burned the bridge and are in the water now. You've claimed to be unaware of who you had upset or what you have even done, so I am making such clear so there is no more confusion. Hi, I'm one of 'em. How can this help things improve? People have, in the past, been afraid to say what they actually think and feel and talk about how sick your actions made them. They called you the "Fifth Admin" with how you were always so condescending and put on this air of superiority, like you thought you ran the show here. A lot of people just took what you had to dish out because they felt if they said anything, they themselves would be banned due to your constant twisting of a dialogue to paint yourself the one who was wronged. No one wanted to give you any ammo. People have even warned me not to post here because they know you will use find some way to damn me with it. What I'm hoping for is that in my presenting my own thoughts and feelings on the matter, it will help others to speak up as Bella's post had done for me.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 31, 2016 0:38:27 GMT -5 onivel said:

As I said in Tells the other night. We don't have to agree with each other's view to still treat each other with respect and kindness. I must say the Mouse and Voss I have seen since your return has been much more approachable to interact with and lacking of the vitrol that I had seen previously. Enough so that the I am sure the newer players who had not seen them before are probably thinking " WTF is this all about?". I think that is a good thing and I hope to see more of the same.

I have tried to take that same route with my PCs. Those that never new the Mouse and Voss from before will and have treated them by what they see. The ones who have history, well history is there and not to be ignored. They will of course will be more leary. People can and do change, but the convincing that the change is real can take time.


Oni

I've enjoyed our interactions of late as well. Kind of sad that I never realized how unfun and uncomfortable the way I was playing Voss in the past was for me as well as for those around me.

Thanks for your words. They're encouraging, oni. Look forward to seeing you in-game again soon.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 31, 2016 0:43:19 GMT -5 Not Batman said:

...I never asked you to apologize. -I- apologized. And I have already stated multiple times that I do not intend to brush off blame. I'm trying to address people's honest concerns and grievances to the best of my ability, but it's very difficult if you continue to insist I'm lying.

I never implied that you asked me to apologize, I am making the point that I mean what I am saying and will hold to them and do not feel that I am being overly harsh or malicious by speaking them.

I won't ask you not to post, but you still have yet to really offer me anything I can do to make you feel better or to make things right, and in fact you've said multiple times that there is nothing I can do. The point of this thread is to open a conversation about what I can do to improve how people feel, not to provide a rant session against me. You have a right to your feelings, and a right to express them as you have done, but continually bringing them up again and again isn't constructive and isn't going to make anyone feel any better - least of all you, yourself.

This is far from me just ranting at you about what you have done wrong. It is showing you the point you are at. You burned the bridge and are in the water now. You've claimed to be unaware of who you had upset or what you have even done, so I am making such clear so there is no more confusion. Hi, I'm one of 'em. How can this help things improve? People have, in the past, been afraid to say what they actually think and feel and talk about how sick your actions made them. They called you the "Fifth Admin" with how you were always so condescending and put on this air of superiority, like you thought you ran the show here. A lot of people just took what you had to dish out because they felt if they said anything, they themselves would be banned due to your constant twisting of a dialogue to paint yourself the one who was wronged. No one wanted to give you any ammo. People have even warned me not to post here because they know you will use find some way to damn me with it. What I'm hoping for is that in my presenting my own thoughts and feelings on the matter, it will help others to speak up as Bella's post had done for me.

Fair enough, but let me ask this - and this is not a jab at you or the admins.

Is it my fault that that perception was there that I was this 'Fifth Admin' (Ironic because I always felt powerless to do anything because the admins constantly advised me -not- to approach people oocly about problems and to just let them handle things) or is it the fault of the admins who gave the impression that they supported my actions?

I get it. I was an asshole to a lot of people, and to be honest I kinda relied on the admins to keep me in check. I figured so long as I didn't break any rules things would be gravy - and figured if I did break a rule the admins would put me back in line quick. For the longest time I was just told that "so and so doesn't have a point" and "we're hearing things but there is no evidence so don't worry. We'll handle it". Eventually it really just came down to FW finally getting overwhelmed with -so- many upset people that he had to act, from what I was told by him. At the time I was belligerent, hurt, and felt betrayed by the admins. It seemed unfair because I had only done what the admins said to do: not approach anyone ooc. Do not resolve matters on my own. Let them handle it.

I don't know if the admins did handle it. I don't know if they handled it but too late. I don't know if there was just too much to handle. As I've said, so much information was concealed from me for various reasons that I can't comment on any of that. But what I can comment on is this: if I was perceived as having the ability to influence the admins' opinions then the admins should learn from that moving forward and not allow another player to have such a perception or such power. I would advise them to respond swiftly to any such behavior to correct it before such perceptions can be built. I would also advise them to be careful of their relationships with players and the impressions those relationships can cause. That said, I am not an admin and those are just my opinions.

I'm well aware of the point I'm at, though I appreciate you reiterating it 3 times now on top of Bella's eloquently-worded post also stating the inevitability that some people simply are fed up with me and have no intention of allowing me any chance to hurt them again. This thread, however, would not exist if I were not at or near this point. It's an attempt. A step. And to be honest, at this point your words are very discouraging from continuing along the path. It's not your fault. It's mine. Maybe I'm being sensitive, but your words just don't seem productive, and if this thread is not to be productive then there's really no point to opening myself up to all of this. If you can tell me these posts and this venting is making you feel better, fine, but I just don't get the impression that it is.

I get it, you're upset. You've been pushed too far, and you -really- want to drive that home. But I hear you loud and clear. If there's nothing I can do to make things right between us, then please believe me when I say your feelings are heard and understood. I've agreed to have nothing to do with you, Not Batman in-game or OOC. What more are you expecting to gain from posting here?

Regardless, thank you for taking the time to share your feelings. If it makes you feel better, then it's worth it. And if - as you say you desire - it encourages others to speak up, then I appreciate your words all the more. The point is, after all, to open this discussion to everyone who has been hurt. Not just one or two with minor problems with me, but everyone.

[Nokteronoth]

I actually slept on the idea of writing here, because I didn't want to come across the wrong way. It was some good time to think, and after spending the morning cleaning up after upset dog stomach, I think I'm decently ready to post it.

My job, at the moment, is Search Engine Optimization and Reputation Management. Why do I mention this? I work for some of the worst people in California. I've represented nationally-famous ambulance chasers. I've written for two parties involved in one of the biggest fraud cases for water management in the state. We're the people you call when you've fucked up, big time, and you want to try and keep the public coming to you for business.

You have followed the precise damage-control steps that we do for people that are facing prison time for white collar crime. Down to the same exact diction, the OP and subsequent posts have matched our formula.

For lack of something more eloquent- and almost everyone on the server has likely seen this at some point, you come across like Saddam Hussein in South Park. 

The admins may not have told you who had problems with you, but I can almost guarantee someone that can write like you can has the ability to make a really damn good guess. You've likely seen it in who sees you in the square and ducks the opposite way. The people who back out of events when you sign up. The ones you have made log off during events before you left. There are -several- people that have left the server. You aren't dumb, or stupid, or careless. Acting like you have no idea is disingenuous at best, willful ignorance at worst. I can point to everyone on this entire server that I can -imagine- that I've irritated, at some point or other. Some players have anxiety attacks because of you two. Some are afraid to log on to this day. Some have had these issues for months, if not longer. They've tried to talk to you about it. They've tried to fix issues one on one, and failed.

I don't want to talk for other people though. Suffice to say that there are quite a few, and some who no longer play NWN at all.

Which is a good point of this post, I suppose, I might go around and try to make amends with people who I may have caused issues for. Which, would likely include yourself and CM.

We've had our issues. Which I'm sure you likely remember, there's been DM intervention on several occasions. I don't want to go into specifics beyond trying to bring to memory a certain event where spam-rolling scrolls for 1's while I was typing a response was rather irritating. By the end, before you left, I had attempted to be more friendly by taking part in a few more events such as the Roanna/Illix plotline(Ever wonder why I was the only person willing to?), at Belladonna's behest to try and be more friendly.

I won't pretend that you're 100% the problem. I can be stubborn and argumentative, a stuck up and self righteous asshole from time to time. I saw issues coming before they happened and could have just kept my head down. I didn't, and things escalated from time to time, up to and including my best friend ducking out of events because she had felt you and CM were picking on me. 

There was also that post - deleted soon after, that was made when you two left. When you called out everyone on the server who reported something to the admin team as foolish, mistaken, and immature. I don't remember any of the particular wording of it, but it was certainly the fine bit of vitriol craftsmanship. The community was wrong, because they didn't want to confront a DM or someone who wasn't afraid to get more aggressive. Everyone else was the problem. You were insulted that people had the audacity to end up crying from stress/frustration RL, after talking to one or the other of you, and went to the admins. I'm sure it might have been one of those 'heat of the moment' posts, but it certainly was a hell of a way to spread gasoline on the way out. 

So where do we go from here? I'm not swinging one way or the other. You want to play, go ahead and play. But like you've said many times now, things aren't going to happen overnight. At the moment, I don't give a damn what you do. I'll be that self righteous asshole again and say I don't care what you've done to me. I can 'forgive' that. I can't forgive what happens to those close to me. If things get awful again, I won't try to patch attitudes up or even be civil. Greedo and Han are sitting at the table, it's up to you who shoots first, if at all. (I would hope not at all, but time will tell.)

NWN is a game. I've played almost every single day since it came out. I'd like to have fun. I'm sure you're the same, but remember that a lot of people weren't having fun before you left. Keep that in mind the next time there's a tell waiting for the enter key to be hit. Keep it in mind the next time there's an argument about lore, or rules, or how characters should be forming. Also keep in mind that there are very few people who will put up with it a second time, or third, or fourth. 

~BR

[kothoses]

So, I have had literally 0 experience of either side of this discussion.  Maybe I missed it cos for the last year or so I havent been able to play much who knows.

I will say this, NWN servers are goldfish bowls made out of magnifying glasses.  You will get all kinds of people here, from the hugely overly sensitive Tumblr types to the massive dickweasel 4chan types.    Because of the fishbowl nature you have to treat playing here like you would working in an office in some ways.  You dont have to like everyone you work with, you do however have to remain civil with them, that is a given, that is basic stuff, I only mention it because I am going to lean on the office analogy quite heavily, but first I need to bring another one in.

The second is the snowflake effect that happens on the internet, everyone is the star of their own little drama in nwn and part of the mindset for being able to do that requires that people put a little bit of them selves into it.  So what does this have to do with anything, well what it means is between the Goldfish bowl magnifying everything that comes into it, and the fact that people are invested on an emotional level here, their attachment to their avatar or their OOC personal even is multiplied beyond what it would be to say a PnP character. So  this means when people are emotionally invested but they are exploring and expressing that through a medium that removes oral communication cues, and removes body language cues, leaving only text, as a result that text is read in to a LOT harder.

So, essentially if I read this right, and again, I am not part of any events that happened before that I know of.  You went to the office party, had a dump on the photocopier, called the bosses wife a whore and told your colleagues to go fuck them selves, smashed a few PCs and then flipped them off as you left for home.   Now you start by saying you want to repair any damage that was done, well, you are going to have to do a better job of owning it mate.

Firstly Don't try and give "mitigation" in an apology, when you mitigate an apology you take away from its effectiveness.  No one that you have to apologise to cares about the reasons behind your actions or mitigating factors AT THIS STAGE.    If you know you fucked up and you want to try and repair that then start by showing that, without caveats because when you caveat it, what you are saying is "Im sorry, but I dont want you to blame me" no, if you have to apologise then you are to blame, suck it up for now.  Yes there are three sides to every story but at this stage you are the one who is coming forward so don't half bake it, because then it just looks like you either dont mean it, or you are trying to bait people into "Taking their share" which is not the way to do it, go all in, look back and realise that you made mistakes and lern from it but also understand that when you mess up, mitigating factors only matter in determining the extent of any penalties that result from the actions.

Secondly, once you own it fully own it and not just say you do but actually decide that you do, then you can start rebuilding.  Portioning out blame or giving your self a safety net not only takes away from the power of an apology but it also stops you from being able to learn and grow from the experience.  Until you honestly sit there and look at it not from the perspective of "What lead me to this" But "How can I get past this" you wont be able to.   The power in an apology is that it shows people you understand that what you did was detrimental to them, yes, it leaves you vulnerable because you have to be for it to have any effect, you are in essence taking a part of you and rebuilding it after all.  So stop trying to mitigate it, I dont know what transpired, I am sure from your point of view there is a whole other side to it, there are factors and people that pushed you to it, but you are the one seeking some measure of forgiveness and eventual reciprocity on your efforts.

People add background information to give their statements of apology or argument more gravitas when its not needed, your personal situation is your own, I am glad its getting better, but it neither excuses nor validates anything, its the same for everyone, we all have our perceptions and those are our reality.  


Finally, understand that an apology only has the power the peoples its offered to let it have.  Some people wont accept it, you wont be able to rebuild friendships with people all the time, all you can do in those scenarios is live and let live,  you dont have to be friends with everyone here, but you do have to be able to co-exist.  Your focus needs to be on showing that, dont try too hard, just let it come in its own time.

Some people will keep you at arms length, accept that, others may try and give you a hand, accept that too.  In time, if you actually take my advice and genuinely own your mistakes, you will find other people will at the very least gain an amount of civil respect for you, and though they wont forget, or in some cases even forgive past mistakes, they will move on.

Finally, for everyone, this is a game, its not the hunger games, there is no life or death prize, Dont put too much emotion into it even if it is your escape from the reality, keep a bit of perspective on life when you log in and log out.

Like I said, I wasnt involved in the Original dramas, so I have no opinion on that, this is just a bit of advice to try and help you get past it.  

Own your mistakes, without reservation, celebrate your success' in just the same way.


Now if you will excuse me, I am normally known for shit posting and trolling people, so I am going to go get back to that.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 31, 2016 11:36:50 GMT -5 Nokteronoth said:

I actually slept on the idea of writing here, because I didn't want to come across the wrong way. It was some good time to think, and after spending the morning cleaning up after upset dog stomach, I think I'm decently ready to post it.

My job, at the moment, is Search Engine Optimization and Reputation Management. Why do I mention this? I work for some of the worst people in California. I've represented nationally-famous ambulance chasers. I've written for two parties involved in one of the biggest fraud cases for water management in the state. We're the people you call when you've fucked up, big time, and you want to try and keep the public coming to you for business.

You have followed the precise damage-control steps that we do for people that are facing prison time for white collar crime. Down to the same exact diction, the OP and subsequent posts have matched our formula.

For lack of something more eloquent- and almost everyone on the server has likely seen this at some point, you come across like Saddam Hussein in South Park. 

The admins may not have told you who had problems with you, but I can almost guarantee someone that can write like you can has the ability to make a really damn good guess. You've likely seen it in who sees you in the square and ducks the opposite way. The people who back out of events when you sign up. The ones you have made log off during events before you left. There are -several- people that have left the server. You aren't dumb, or stupid, or careless. Acting like you have no idea is disingenuous at best, willful ignorance at worst. I can point to everyone on this entire server that I can -imagine- that I've irritated, at some point or other. Some players have anxiety attacks because of you two. Some are afraid to log on to this day. Some have had these issues for months, if not longer. They've tried to talk to you about it. They've tried to fix issues one on one, and failed.

I don't want to talk for other people though. Suffice to say that there are quite a few, and some who no longer play NWN at all.

Which is a good point of this post, I suppose, I might go around and try to make amends with people who I may have caused issues for. Which, would likely include yourself and CM.

We've had our issues. Which I'm sure you likely remember, there's been DM intervention on several occasions. I don't want to go into specifics beyond trying to bring to memory a certain event where spam-rolling scrolls for 1's while I was typing a response was rather irritating. By the end, before you left, I had attempted to be more friendly by taking part in a few more events such as the Roanna/Illix plotline(Ever wonder why I was the only person willing to?), at Belladonna's behest to try and be more friendly.

I won't pretend that you're 100% the problem. I can be stubborn and argumentative, a stuck up and self righteous asshole from time to time. I saw issues coming before they happened and could have just kept my head down. I didn't, and things escalated from time to time, up to and including my best friend ducking out of events because she had felt you and CM were picking on me. 

There was also that post - deleted soon after, that was made when you two left. When you called out everyone on the server who reported something to the admin team as foolish, mistaken, and immature. I don't remember any of the particular wording of it, but it was certainly the fine bit of vitriol craftsmanship. The community was wrong, because they didn't want to confront a DM or someone who wasn't afraid to get more aggressive. Everyone else was the problem. You were insulted that people had the audacity to end up crying from stress/frustration RL, after talking to one or the other of you, and went to the admins. I'm sure it might have been one of those 'heat of the moment' posts, but it certainly was a hell of a way to spread gasoline on the way out. 

So where do we go from here? I'm not swinging one way or the other. You want to play, go ahead and play. But like you've said many times now, things aren't going to happen overnight. At the moment, I don't give a damn what you do. I'll be that self righteous asshole again and say I don't care what you've done to me. I can 'forgive' that. I can't forgive what happens to those close to me. If things get awful again, I won't try to patch attitudes up or even be civil. Greedo and Han are sitting at the table, it's up to you who shoots first, if at all. (I would hope not at all, but time will tell.)

NWN is a game. I've played almost every single day since it came out. I'd like to have fun. I'm sure you're the same, but remember that a lot of people weren't having fun before you left. Keep that in mind the next time there's a tell waiting for the enter key to be hit. Keep it in mind the next time there's an argument about lore, or rules, or how characters should be forming. Also keep in mind that there are very few people who will put up with it a second time, or third, or fourth. 

~BR

There seems to be a common misconception in this thread that I'd like to clarify.

Firstly, I'm not claiming ignorance of what happened. I'm admitting that I don't know -everything- about the situation. As you have said I was aware of -some- of the people upset with me...however, I fail to see how being a decent writer gives me any ability to intuitively sense who has problems and who don't. More specifically, it's impossible to tell which of those problems are completely IC and which are OOC. I created this thread in an earnest attempt to seek peace. I'm a bit hurt that nobody believes that, but you have your reasons, and they're just as justified as mine are for doing this.

Secondly, there seems to be a misconception about the steps I -wanted- to take when things were becoming a problem. People don't seem to understand that I was literally told by the admins on multiple occasions not to approach those I knew had a problem with me and try to work it out. I know that those who find this thread insincere or disingenuous will not believe that, and the admins can verify if they wish, but it really doesn't matter. For some there's literally nothing I can do to change how you feel. For some it will take time. For some this thread is enough.

You make some good points here, though, and I should address them. Not to give reasons or make excuses, but to simply acknowledge the validity of your claims.

You mention that Bella insisted you make amends with me, but - and I'm not calling anyone out or casting doubt on any of the assertions here - you're talking about the very same admin who asked me to "keep an eye" on yourself and another after you were suspected of and caught exploiting in-game systems to the benefit of your characters. This is not an attempt at mud-slinging but rather an attempt to explain why you perceived hostility and mistrust from me personally at that time. To put it simply, a figure of authority on the server had labeled you as "a bad egg" and rather than make a judgment call for myself, I allowed that to influence my actions and decisions. Now, if I hold anything you've said here to me against you I'd also have to hold myself accountable for how I treated you back then. If I were to hold it against you what happened then and refuse to give you a second chance, then I couldn't expect any different from you.

I don't hold it against you. Whatever you may or may not have done doesn't matter. The way I treated you was wrong and unfair, and I'm sorry. All I have are these words to impress upon you that fact, but they are sincere. Even if the way I treated you stemmed from words I was told by an authority figure, that's no excuse for not being a decent human being and giving you a chance to explain the situation more fully and hear your side of things at the time. Considering nobody has asked nor cares for my side of the events of the past (those who have asked assume I'm lying most of the time) I shouldn't have been such a dick and done exactly to you then what has been done to me. Excuse my language there, but it's the truth. I was a dick, and there was no excuse for it.

As for the post before we left. I wish it hadn't been taken down. We didn't ask for it to be that I recall (I may be mistaken as emotions were very high back then and clear thought was far from me). It was an honest depiction of how we genuinely felt, albeit poorly expressed and without concern for others. We were hurt. We felt betrayed. Those feelings haven't gone anywhere. Ultimately, everyone involved in things that happened back then is going to say "I was right, they were wrong," and ultimately everyone will be wrong and right. However, despite still feeling that way I want to reach out and do the right thing and give you all this public space to get things out in the open. I won't lie. This stuff isn't easy to read for a lot of reasons. But just because it's not easy and just because it hurts doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.

I'm not trying to be some kind of martyr or anything. I'm an adult. This is a game...it's also a place where I met my fiancee ages ago and where we both once had a fun, safe place to create stories and have a good time. I want that back, and while it's true that I can just ignore those I've hurt and have nothing to do with those who make me uncomfortable and still have what we once had the fact of the matter is that guilt is a heavy thing. I know I did you all wrong. I don't know why. I know I didn't think it was a big deal at the time - any of the times - and I know that at the end, when all that pain and hurt I'd caused was turned back on me and I was forced by the admins to look at it I didn't want to believe it.

I still don't really want to, but it's there. It can't be ignored. And it isn't going to go away if I just sit and do nothing. I know it won't matter to those I've hurt, but my fiancee has cried over the things posted in this thread, and in truth I do this as much for her as for all of you. I've asked her to avoid reading this thread for the time being because to be honest, she just can't handle it. Part of her - part of both of us - still feel like this isn't fair. Like the situation in the past shouldn't have come to this and like we relied on others to stop it from getting here instead of taking matters into our own hands sooner and we got bit in the butt for it. Is she right? In some ways, yes. Nobody is perfect, and we've interacted with a lot of people over and about these issues. They were not all wrong all the time, and I think it's fair to say that I made poor judgments many of the times they were right out of pride or anger or whatever makes people do dumb things that they'll later regret very much when they realize how much it has cost them in the long run.

I'm sorry you feel that this is just some kind of 'damage control' or 'public outreach' like a big company would do. I can only communicate as I ever have, and I guess you're kinda right. I'm trying to control the damage that I've done to the server. I know my reputation won't ever recover from what's happened, but I hope that eventually most if not all of us can move on and be comfortable and have fun again. I'm tired of seeing people leave the square or log off or hide in the afk zone because of me. It doesn't make me feel good, and while I don't react that way to discomfort on the server I get that same sick feeling in my gut around some characters and players because of what's happened. I'm not a victim here, but as you mentioned I'm not 100% of the problem.

I genuinely just want everyone to feel better and be able to play without fear. Even if it's not with me.

Lastly, I would like to ask respectfully that people stop bringing up my fiancee in this thread. She may have contributed to problems in her own way, but she did not invite these words. I did. You would not say these things on this forum about someone who did not ask for it, please do not do so with her. This thread is permission to air your grievances with me and for us to attempt to move forward, but it is not permission to attack, berate, implicate, or otherwise involve any player who has not given their express permission to do so. I should have likely made this clear sooner, but it is said now. If you have issues with CM, I would wait until she opens such a discussion herself (which isn't likely to happen due to her crippling social anxiety) or show her the same respect the admins said we must show in the past and not post things intended to bait her into a conversation she doesn't want to have.

Thank you for contributing to the thread, and I hope in time I'll be able to make things better for you or at least that you and your friends who are so heavily influenced by me no longer feel the need to pause or preempt your fun just because I log on.

[sinisteromnibus]

Jul 31, 2016 13:11:58 GMT -5 kothoses said:

So, I have had literally 0 experience of either side of this discussion.  Maybe I missed it cos for the last year or so I havent been able to play much who knows.

I will say this, NWN servers are goldfish bowls made out of magnifying glasses.  You will get all kinds of people here, from the hugely overly sensitive Tumblr types to the massive dickweasel 4chan types.    Because of the fishbowl nature you have to treat playing here like you would working in an office in some ways.  You dont have to like everyone you work with, you do however have to remain civil with them, that is a given, that is basic stuff, I only mention it because I am going to lean on the office analogy quite heavily, but first I need to bring another one in.

The second is the snowflake effect that happens on the internet, everyone is the star of their own little drama in nwn and part of the mindset for being able to do that requires that people put a little bit of them selves into it.  So what does this have to do with anything, well what it means is between the Goldfish bowl magnifying everything that comes into it, and the fact that people are invested on an emotional level here, their attachment to their avatar or their OOC personal even is multiplied beyond what it would be to say a PnP character. So  this means when people are emotionally invested but they are exploring and expressing that through a medium that removes oral communication cues, and removes body language cues, leaving only text, as a result that text is read in to a LOT harder.

So, essentially if I read this right, and again, I am not part of any events that happened before that I know of.  You went to the office party, had a dump on the photocopier, called the bosses wife a whore and told your colleagues to go fuck them selves, smashed a few PCs and then flipped them off as you left for home.   Now you start by saying you want to repair any damage that was done, well, you are going to have to do a better job of owning it mate.

Firstly Don't try and give "mitigation" in an apology, when you mitigate an apology you take away from its effectiveness.  No one that you have to apologise to cares about the reasons behind your actions or mitigating factors AT THIS STAGE.    If you know you fucked up and you want to try and repair that then start by showing that, without caveats because when you caveat it, what you are saying is "Im sorry, but I dont want you to blame me" no, if you have to apologise then you are to blame, suck it up for now.  Yes there are three sides to every story but at this stage you are the one who is coming forward so don't half bake it, because then it just looks like you either dont mean it, or you are trying to bait people into "Taking their share" which is not the way to do it, go all in, look back and realise that you made mistakes and lern from it but also understand that when you mess up, mitigating factors only matter in determining the extent of any penalties that result from the actions.

Secondly, once you own it fully own it and not just say you do but actually decide that you do, then you can start rebuilding.  Portioning out blame or giving your self a safety net not only takes away from the power of an apology but it also stops you from being able to learn and grow from the experience.  Until you honestly sit there and look at it not from the perspective of "What lead me to this" But "How can I get past this" you wont be able to.   The power in an apology is that it shows people you understand that what you did was detrimental to them, yes, it leaves you vulnerable because you have to be for it to have any effect, you are in essence taking a part of you and rebuilding it after all.  So stop trying to mitigate it, I dont know what transpired, I am sure from your point of view there is a whole other side to it, there are factors and people that pushed you to it, but you are the one seeking some measure of forgiveness and eventual reciprocity on your efforts.

People add background information to give their statements of apology or argument more gravitas when its not needed, your personal situation is your own, I am glad its getting better, but it neither excuses nor validates anything, its the same for everyone, we all have our perceptions and those are our reality.  


Finally, understand that an apology only has the power the peoples its offered to let it have.  Some people wont accept it, you wont be able to rebuild friendships with people all the time, all you can do in those scenarios is live and let live,  you dont have to be friends with everyone here, but you do have to be able to co-exist.  Your focus needs to be on showing that, dont try too hard, just let it come in its own time.

Some people will keep you at arms length, accept that, others may try and give you a hand, accept that too.  In time, if you actually take my advice and genuinely own your mistakes, you will find other people will at the very least gain an amount of civil respect for you, and though they wont forget, or in some cases even forgive past mistakes, they will move on.

Finally, for everyone, this is a game, its not the hunger games, there is no life or death prize, Dont put too much emotion into it even if it is your escape from the reality, keep a bit of perspective on life when you log in and log out.

Like I said, I wasnt involved in the Original dramas, so I have no opinion on that, this is just a bit of advice to try and help you get past it.  

Own your mistakes, without reservation, celebrate your success' in just the same way.


Now if you will excuse me, I am normally known for shit posting and trolling people, so I am going to go get back to that.

You know, this is probably the most helpful thing posted here, and I guess I never really considered things that way (and I guess it lends credence and explains why so many find my words disingenuous). You're right. This isn't about how I feel about what happened or where other people may be used as a justification for what I did.

I honestly thought that using this thread to reply to - specifically - each person who posted was respectful and the best way to get to a quick resolution...but that was dumb and arrogant.

Look, I'm not going to reply here anymore. I'm not going to try to explain things from my perspective like I've been doing because he's right. That's not an apology. I'm...not really good at this, but I am honestly sorry for turning even this platform into something that it really shouldn't be.

I won't edit any of the previous posts I've made because...well, to be honest there are a lot of them, and also they should stay there as a reminder and example of the behavior that I've had in the past that hurt so many. I can't promise I can be someone I'm not...so some people may continue to be really uncomfortable around me. However, I can promise to be more aware of others' feelings going forward and to take steps to preserve those feelings as much as possible.

I'm sorry everyone. Not just those who were hurt by me, but to the whole community of this server. I've embarrassed myself time and again, hurt many of you time and again, and I've made excuses time and again. I'm going to try to stay here and play here - to have fun with those who want to with me and not to ruin the fun of those who don't. If I can't accomplish either of those things and the general consensus is that CD is a better place without me.

As this is my last post, I'm going to make it personal:

@belladonna : You tried your best for a long time with me. As a friend I was judgmental and unfair to you and selfish to demand so much of your time and attention. As a player I belittled you and your position even while I begged for more time with your characters and rping with you. You didn't deserve that, and you really didn't deserve what I said to you before we left in skype. Things may never be right between us, but if you can I'd like you to remember how things were at the start. When we had fun rping together and laughing together, and I want to thank you for all the help and encouragement you offered me in regards to my career. Without those words, I never would have had the courage to be a teacher. Thank you for having been my friend, and I'm sorry I didn't deserve it.

Edge : Your rp is awesome and your plot was some of the most fun I've ever had. So fun, in fact, that I got addicted to it and wanted more and more and more like a spoiled child. I didn't care that you were working your butt off and had barely any game time. You're an awesome guy - if a little quirky - and you also didn't deserve the treatment I gave you before we left - or leading up to that. I'm sorry I let my selfishness get in the way of being a good friend and a decent person, and thank you for putting up with it as long as you did. I know that I hurt you worse than you'll ever be able to say, and nobody deserves such disrespect as that which I gave you.

Fire Wraith : You and I really never saw eye-to-eye and I was constantly antagonistic and confrontational towards you...and yet after I posted this thread you were the first person to send me a tell in game and tell me that life's too short to hold grudges and you were glad to see me back. You're not perfect, but I've been too critical of you for too long. You've accomplished something incredible here with CD along with your fellow admins, and even though I'm probably just another 'problem player' like so many you've seen come and go you still left the door open for me to return when I left. I was the rudest to you out of all the admins, and you had the most reason to make sure I could never come back, but you still had enough faith in me to allow me to start playing here again. I have no idea why, but thank you. You're a better man than I ever treated you as, and a better one than me.

ladybug : I know that a lot of things between us made your life a living hell. I never really got to know you well, but I probably got to know you better than you would let most, and then I hurt you. I'm glad for the fun times we had on skype and glad you took a chance on CD and got interested. I hope that my behavior can be nothing more than a stepping stone for you, and that you continue to have fun here and be awesome. I'm sorry I didn't treat you better.

Vincent07 : Vince, you've always been a friend to me, and I've continuously put you in a bad position of having to choose between being an admin and being a friend. I've been kinder and more respectful to you than those mentioned above because we resonate on a lot of things, but I've still caused you a lot of grief and annoyance. Thanks for trying so hard in my regard, and I will do my best not to put you in those kinds of positions anymore.

realityjumper : You're a sweetheart, and I wish I'd taken the time to get to know you better before I started being a jerk to you. I judged your rp and your characters harshly just because it's different from my own, and I disparaged you and made fun of you because of how you avoided confrontation. I didn't consider your circumstances or situation and I made CD a very uncomfortable place for you. I'm glad we've been talking, and I hope I'm easing some of the pain I've caused you. I'm sorry for making you feel the way you've felt and for - quite literally - endangering your health. I come from a very conflict-oriented background and family, and I was never really taught how to deal with these kinds of situations like you can. That's no excuse for my behavior, though, and I can only promise that you won't be victim to it anymore. Keep being awesome, and I'm sorry for ruining your fun for so long.

Nokteronoth : I've just honestly been super critical of you for a very long time. I've let rumor and the words of others dictate my reactions to you more often than my own experiences. Never really got to know you at all, but I judged you harshly regardless. I'm sorry for being so suspicious of you and for hurting so many of your friends.

Misty : You're kind of tied in to nokteronoth. I never got to know you, but I'd already made judgments about you before I even tried based on what I'd heard from other, unreliable sources. I'm sorry I never gave you a chance, and I know I don't deserve a second one myself. Please continue to have fun and play here, and don't let my presence take that from you. I will try my best to be more comfortable for you and your friends to be around.

Nevermore : I hope things are going well for you, and I'm sorry for all the pain and stress I caused you. I never really got the full story, but I was told that it was a combination of things I said in the DM chat, In-character, and OOC to yourself and friends of yours. I haven't seen you in-game recently, and I hope you aren't staying away because of me. If so, please return. I will give you your space IC and OOC and do whatever I can to help you be comfortable and find fun again. I'm sorry my abrasive nature hurt you so much, and more sorry that I created so much stress for you in my mad dash to try to resolve things. I didn't consider your situation, your time, or your feelings, and that is inexcusable.

valiea987: Things started out so well for us. I'm not sure of everything I may have done to hurt you, but I think much of it came from my time as a DM. I recall we had some disputes about lore, but I don't remember the exact arguments. I'm sorry that I came off as dismissive or arrogant in those conversations. I can be very standoffish, and some of the time I get so convicted of my opinions that I become blind to what's really important. That's no excuse, but I'm aware of the harm that's caused now, and I intend to do all that I can moving forward to make sure it isn't an issue again. You didn't deserve that disrespect, and I hope that with time and this apology you'll feel better about playing.

Not Batman : We've never really gotten along, and to be honest that's mostly due to the impression I was given of you from dom101  who is now banned. Before I ever met you, I was given screenshots and logs of behavior between you and some players who aren't even here anymore in the past and was told you regularly harassed other players (particularly females) both IC and OOC and that you left the server for a time because you'd been reprimanded by the admins for it. I don't know how much of that is true, but at the time it really colored all my dealings with you. I've always found our communication with one another to be difficult - likely due to the fact that we're a lot of like. We're both confrontational people who don't like to see injustice or unfair treatment - and certainly don't like to be the victim of it. I'm sorry for pre-judging you based on the words of someone I should've known better than to trust, and I'm sorry for the many times I dealt discourteously with you in our disagreements. I don't expect forgiveness, and to be honest I don't deserve it, but going forward I will make every attempt to accommodate your desires in the game world. Whether they be for me to avoid you in all ways or for me to simply be more aware of your feelings in both my rp and our OOC interactions. You were right in your posts above that thus far in the thread I've made excuses and given reasons to avoid the consequences of my actions, and I'm sorry for doing that as well. I know you don't believe it was unintentional, but this is honestly a first for me, and I'm not very good at the whole apologizing thing.

Arya Kalarathri : I've said snarky and mean things about you behind your back to your friends, and I've participated in some pretty mean-spirited conversations about your rp. You never really seemed bothered by this, but even so it wasn't fair to treat you that way. You're cool to be around, you've got a lot of imagination, and you always go out of your way to involve others where and when you can. I've been a let less cruel to you than some others, but I'm sorry nonetheless. I haven't treated you with the respect you deserved either IC or OOC.

whitespirit : We haven't interacted much, but I've been told a lot about you. Primarily, I was told you don't handle confrontation or conflict well and that it causes you a great deal of stress. I'm sorry that I've created this whole mess on the server. I know it has probably made it very difficult for you to log on and play. I was never unkind or disrespectful to you directly, but my actions hurt you all the same because I was thoughtless. I hope that as I move forward and try to fix things, I can give you back some of what I've taken from you.

theshobit : We've talked one time on skype, and I think I may have said something that offended you. But besides that, you - like many - suffered my disparaging remarks about your ability to DM, your roleplay, and even your outfit designs. I've mocked you and probably humiliated you and just made things unfun for you at one time or another. I'm sorry for being such a child. There's no excuse for it, and I hope in time we can move past that.

enarian123 : I hated your guts for so long with pretty much no reason for it. Again, I heard things about you when I first started playing here and let that color my entire perception of you. All it took was a couple times in-character where my characters felt poorly about yours for me to pretty much decide I didn't like you as a player. It wasn't fair to do that to you, and it caused a lot of problems between us. Recently, we've been rping together more, and I've really been enjoying it. Elf is nothing like I expected, and you as a player are nothing like I had assumed. Still, if you weren't aware of the wrong I've done you, now you know. You like all the others deserve much better from me - more respect and less bullshit - and I hope we can continue to interact moving forward so that I can give you that respect.

FaeFae : We had great fun when you first came to the server, and then a lot of stuff happened IC that got taken out of character. We used to talk often on skype, and you even made such great artwork for me and my characters. Nobody is perfect, though, and we had our issues OOC that lasted a while and got really ugly. I don't think anybody was happy on any side of those issues, but ultimately you were the one who felt forced to leave because of the way I treated you. I'm sorry I made you feel that way and allowed that to happen. I know you still want nothing to do with me either IC or OOC and I understand why. I hope with time, though, you'll become comfortable with things again. I'd like to start talking OOC again on skype like we used to, I'd love to have more art from you, and I miss getting to know your characters and make stories with you. I'm truly sorry that I treated you so poorly.

Remmy : You were part and parcel of the above issues mentioned. I dealt pretty harshly with you in our OOC interactions and you deserve better than that. I recognize now how poorly I handled those conversations and situation and how childish I was when you were just trying to make things better for everyone. I'm sorry for that, and I hope one day we'll be able to rp together again and have fun without the drama or the OOC problems. I know it will take time, but I will work towards that for the sake of both you and FaeFae.

Darvins : I addressed some of the things I did to you in the earlier post, but again here I judged you harshly on your rp, took things that happened IC out of character, and I never really bothered to make an attempt to amend things with you or clarify things or even talk to you even when I knew there was a problem. I hope you can forgive me and that we can move forward and keep rping with one another.

threeguesses : Pretty much the same as above. I judged you as a player based off of the actions of one of your characters, and I let words from an unreliable source color my perceptions of you both in-game and out. I do still remember that run between Voss and Rashan and the rp that happened. It was a lot of fun and very eye-opening. I hope in time you'll feel comfortable enough with me that we can enjoy such again.

I may have left some out, and if I have, I'm sorry. These are the only ones I can think of or recall at the moment who I know I upset and made uncomfortable. It's already a pretty long list as is, but if I've left you out and have made you feel poorly I'm sorry for the pain I've caused you as well. My PM box will be open from here on for those who want to deal with me on a more personal level, but besides that all I can do is give my promise that things will be better going forward and that I will work as hard as I can to undo the damage I've caused and restore comfort to all those I robbed of it before. And if it becomes apparent that there's truly nothing I can do to make most if not all of you feel better about things...then I will leave. I'm not convinced at this moment that that isn't the right thing to do, or rather I feel it may be but I don't want to because I want to believe things can get better and don't want to leave these feelings behind when I go. I'd rather not go down in the community's memory as "that jerk who made everybody feel uncomfortable and swore to the very end that he was the victim"

Thank you all for your time, your patience, and allowing me the second chance to even be here to post this.