Suggestion: Remove Challenge Ratings from Examine. For good.

[Dismus]

The dispells destroy spellswords still. You need to be level 25 I believe before it stops dispelling you except what mords auto strips. Two buffs I believe.

[Dismus]

2 in an area or 6 from an individual.  

[tenorgeneral]

And paladins' self-buffing is wayyyy limited to around 6 spells at their own caster level, so...  Actually, the sheer volume of dispels means that unless you are over the caster level that can be dispelled, you're going to lose your high caster level wards, then be reduced to scrolling and losing wards anyway on the next dispel.

[Vincent07]

Dec 21, 2013 23:05:13 GMT -5 kingofaquilonia said:

Let's be honest... you need buffs to do the high level content, you simply can't get enough AC without the buffs...

Second time you've said this in the last week or so, now I have to respond.

This is not accurate.  It is entirely possible to get a standing non-dispellable AC that is not reliant on buffs that is plenty high enough to withstand the epic dungeons.  

Let's assume an Epic PC who has decked themselves out in what I've seen readily available.

Heavy Armor Profile:
10 AC Base
+1 Dex

Enchanted Adamantium Plate: +12 Base, +3 Armor Enchant  (There is a +5 out there too)
Boots: +5 Dodge
Amulet: +5 Natural
Cloak: +5 Deflection

Tower Shield: 3 Base, +4 Shield Enchant  (Yet to see a 5 drop)

So now we're at, 48 AC. Not including the 2-4 you could get from Tumble dumps.  Or another easy 2 from Armor Skin.

A possible 54 AC, reached fairly easily. 51 assuming no Eldritch gear.  

A Dex build could hit numbers very close to this, especially with Invisible Blade's Int to AC, though a scroll or two will make a big difference for them. (Shield)

Now I've taken this somewhat off topic, but 50+ AC is MORE than enough to survive in the current epic areas.  


But on the subject of dispels, they're not just there to take down AC.   No, I'm actually more concerned with things like Death Ward and Magic Circle.  The two buffs that neutralize just about every status effect in the game.  Statuses that can make fights -interesting-.  (Confusion, oh so fun.)   Dungeons should provide a challenge.  There should be a chance you will not succeed, that yes, you might die and loose resources attempting it, even if you've done it right twenty times. That does not need to be a bad thing.  That said, there are few if any areas that will honestly just outright destroy a group if they are at the right level, have a balanced make-up and most importantly, play smartly.  Little known fact, many casters will see through invis, but you can still sneak up on them and drop them if you're lucky.  

[Masque]

In regards to the original topic it doesn't really matter either way the CR ratings are horribly inaccurate to really be a good guide to anything.

In terms of the increasing cost of death?

It depends what behaviour you are trying to instil within your player base. Having played on a server with more extreme death penalties at the higher levels it simply resulted in players logging off and not playing that particular character until reset to avoid the penalty. It will also potentially further narrow down the dungeons that individuals run and make the focus even more around 'the easy ones' with a few hard ones done occasionally for the loot upgrades.

I just can't see any positive behaviour coming from an increased death tax but I can see a lot of the behaviour people don't like already increasing. I.e. square sitting, easy dungeons being farmed continuously etc.  

[Vincent07]

Dec 22, 2013 7:28:31 GMT -5 Masque said:

Having played on a server with more extreme death penalties at the higher levels it simply resulted in players logging off and not playing that particular character until reset to avoid the penalty.

Unlike many other servers, death persists across a reset on CD.  If you don't respawn or are not revived, you will remain dead when you log back in post-reset.

[kingofaquilonia]

A 54 AC is a death sentence at Frost Giants they have a 42 AB I don't even feel safe with the 58 AC I can get. One crit and you're about half dead

But yes apologies for taking it off topic.

[The Red Mage]

There are multiple ways to lower AB. And they don't roll 42 every attack per round. Nor is the place filled with more than 6-8 of them spread about.

[Masque]

Vincent said: Unlike many other servers, death persists across a reset on CD. If you don't respawn or are not revived, you will remain dead when you log back in post-reset.

Ah that is neat. Fair enough! I genuinely think the other points still stand it encourages more cautious behaviour which can negatively hurt roleplay in the long run. The real issue with the diminishing impact of death in a PW is simply because it is a PW. Death happens and will happen proportionately more than in a D&D campaign where you run on a model of four encounters a day, while in NWN you run four encounters in 5 minutes. Death can happen a lot and the people that are impacted the least by it are the optimizers and those more aware of the mechanical aspects of the game, those that are more impacted by it are the more casual gamers. 

The one thing I have always really liked about CD is how it is a very much middle of the road server. You simply put don't need to optimize to be able to complete the dungeons here as the price of failure is not punishing on those that simply want to try out different characters, while the dungeons do not necessitate a high optimization within your character build.  

[germanblangs]

I always viewed the CR on the monsters as something you NEED to have if you are a new player exploring or an old player that has never been to a higher level area.  When you can waltz through massive quantities of orcs on the server and then get smoked by the kings wood orcs, you kinda wonder what the hell is going on.  They're orcs, they shouldn't be that hard, and yet the order of magnitude is vast at the lower levels when you would be killing them.  Not to mention the ogres with scythes that eventually pop up and kill you in one hit if you aren't a fighter or have a lot of con.  Crit hits that is.

We have a lot of new/er players on the server that might want to explore when there are no vets around to tell them they are foolish for trying to tackle certain areas.  Without the CR, they run from one area to the next and then poof in less than one second because those drow are gods and the one's in the prior area are peons.

As to death on CD, it is a joke and it's very sad when I see vets treat it like a booboo in a quest.

[The Red Mage]

I think this thread has served its purpose. New forums, old opinions on all these subjects.

[Dark Dreams]

I believe that Challenge Ratings should be removed entirely. There's no real way to avoid seeing them upon examination, and if you use them with monsters, guess what? That's still metagaming... after your character gets their arse handed to them, I bet they'll know after that.

[jixjum]

58 AC? WOW! You guys are awesome!

Anyhow, as for the examine feature, it's why I never wear any equipment while in Arabel. Although in all the years playing, it hasn't helped in being part of the adventure that takes place. Guess it's all in who you know.