Leveling Caps Suggestion/rant

[Ebola Lola]

Alright Ill just start off anything this is a suggestion but its a little rant like as well, so I apologize in advance. I do not mean any disrespect to any of the Admins, DMs, any other staff members and players.

I do not understand why we need all the xp caps. I can understand the cap into epic levels but the caps at lower levels are just an inconvenience to newer players making it very clear that we will not catch up to players that have been around for awhile. I myself spend quite a bit of time each day on the server and never seem to get anywhere. I have been on a few events but not as many as it would take to get past most of the caps that are in place. I do not like having a vault full of characters that I have to make for something to do because there is not a way to advance to any sort of level of being about to say " Oh look at me I made it to this level and now I'm sorta kick ass and can do this place on my own."  I do not know if it is because of the type of class I play or not. If that is the case then the server should be balanced out so people that play non caster or non tank classes can get higher up as well.

Do not get me wrong I do not think we should be a level 40 in a day type server but at least make it so people can all become a higher level with out having to rely totally on an event that they never know if they are going to be able to make or get to join in on. The system we have right now would work better if there were more events being ran or if the amount of exp that was given was higher.

I feel as though all the time I spend on the server is pretty much wasted because I'm capped or there is no one around to really RP with. There is no point in going out to hunt monsters if there is no xp to gain. Its not worth risking dying to get maybe some loot that will sell for 5k gp or whatever. I know that I die at least 4 times a day so thats almost 10k gp a death that goes down the drain at each death. There is no way for a lower level to get that much loot a day to make up dying so much.

So I guess what Im trying to get at is, can we get rid of the lower level caps and start them at say lvl 22 or something like that? What would be so bad about letting every one catch up to the higher level toons. Yes I know it will not catch us up to all of them because some are very high level but at least letting us get to level 20 21 with out making us depend on an event to get us there would be very nice.  Then the Dms will not feel so pressured to run events when they are tapped out or just have no small ideas and they can focus on plots that have more personal meaning to players, can help them get to epic levels via plot. I can understand that this idea wouldn't work if there were 50+ players on the server at all times but we have a smaller community with players with vaults full of characters that are stuck so they keep making new ones because they are board but will not leave because they are dedicated to the server and love it.

I'm sure I am not the only one that feels like their no help to other PCs when out on events or adventuring or when you get bullied by a higher level and can not do nothing about it because you know if you try to roll something you lose or try to fight them you get spanked. I will not name names but I have seen this a few times since I've been playing here. Some players that are higher level use that to pick fights or just pick on lower levels.  I just feel like that if we all had a chance to be higher level as well a lot of things would change.

I do not think each monster should give 10000xp a kill but people that spend a lot of time on the server should have the chance to earn something with out being hindered by caps. Make it fair for all of us, If the RPers want to go out hunting they have the same chance at leveling up to a high level as well as the hunters have at gaining levels.

I do more hunting then I do Rping in events because I do not get in on -Most- of the events that are ran and just sitting around RPing with out a DM to give you exp doesn't really get you anywhere fast. I do a lot of that as well so I'm getting no where with all the hours a day I spend here.

Alright I just had to get this out there.. I just wanted to see if the caps can be taken out or if a different system for leveling can be put in to even it all out for everyone.

Xoxo
Lola

End of mini rant... This can be locked after my post if needed to not cause a flaming war

[Not Batman]

The exp system was changed recently for just such reasons as you've listed. The EXP system is something that will never change in a very drastic way, but there are several ways you can help yourself level faster. The in game quests provide a good bit of experience, comparable to a DM event. Ask around about the Painting, Mirror, Egg and Slaad tower quests, picking the right time to do these quests can shoot you through to level 13 rather quickly. You also gain your RP EXP by just being active, this doesn't mean only roleplay, going out and fighting monsters will still net you experience point gains.

[The Red Mage]

Players have shot up from levels 14 to epic in around 5-6 months time before and now. That's warp speed. The experience cap is suppose to make your character more relatable and believable as he or she gains strength/ knowledge/ allies/ enemies/ accomplishments. You get gradually stronger. You don't just spend a month roaming around dying, respawning, killing, dying, respawning and suddenly can cast Hellball(even though that may make more sense than sitting around and suddenly acquiring the knowledge for epic spells).

Level 14 is about the mid range for a character here to be able to willfully participate everywhere. You've earned yourself a place, have some experience and knowledge, but you're not a highly specialized, skilled expert like someone else. Levels aren't just more hitpoints/ skills/ ab/ ac. They should mean something. They mean a lot less these days than they did, but they have a few strands of integrity left.

It's troublesome, worrying, and somewhat tiresomely funny that someone thinks you need to be at least level 22 to fit in. I've had a lot of friends that left because of this same "eternally trailing behind" feeling, but there's really nothing you can do about it except trying to make your character and story as compelling as possible.

I'd rather the server cap be level 21, like I've said over and over. I think characters have too much access to higher powers(gear and spells are too strong) and the power creep of it is only going to get worse. Trying to get players to respect the strength of any NPC is futile at the moment. People aren't afraid of Archdevils, Demon Lords, Elder Dragons, Liches, or anything anymore. And I mean that ICly. There's just no fear left. It's because we give too much and take too little. Our little sandbox is filled to the brim with toys, ones which we can use to create nice castles, creatures, and stories, but in the back of our head, we all know it only takes one measily swipe of a hand to finish any story or slay any creature.  Giving them toys faster will only result in poorer quality sand castles and stories.


tl;dr- If you're playing this server for levels and cool gear, you'll be disappointed 9/10 of your time for years and years. Play somewhere else, imo, that is built to support that kind of playstyle much better. You should be concerned about your character's plot. Whether or not it's a good choice or bad, as long as it is an entertaining one for people, then you're doing a good job. Talking to people doesn't get you anywhere fast? That depends on who you speak to and what you say to them. You'll move as fast as you want. You push your own current here, don't wait to get swept up in it, or you'll sink like a stone.

[onivel]

Ebola,

I have been here since inception  and have only ever made it to epic with one character. You can meet/pass existing players depending on the amount you play compared to them. Those that are on a lot will level faster. That is basic cause and effect. The caps do make things start to even out some once you hit the teens.  When I first started all XP above lvl 10- came from events / DM reward. There was no fairy trickle. Then the screws got loosened, and we had people rocket up way faster than the server is built to accommodate. The current system is a compromise between. It is still too fast or too slow depending on who you ask. Its an issue that will never satisfy the sever as a whole... hell it will never satisfy even a majority of people. It is what it is though, and not likely to change in the near future.

[tenorgeneral]

Personally, I'd rather the cap be 20...  But that's just me.  

As for leveling stuff...  I think the primary issue I've had in the past with the leveling scheme here is similar to Lola's in a few ways.  Mostly, when you're a new player and you have no higher level toons, it can be very frustrating to be in a DM event and contribute very little (especially if you're not a frontliner, broken build which can benefit from party buffs extremely well).  I also have to agree with her that it becomes very tedious, very fast, in that you can rocket up to 13 or 14 and then you get stuck at those levels for a certain amount of time minimum (which kind of...  irks my sense of realism honestly, because an adventurer who goes out and kills slightly below CR monsters for 2 hours a day, should and would be gaining way more xp than someone who walks around the city all day, doing a profession, or even making skill checks to achieve social goals, as skill check DC is what determines CR of social type encounters and for talking to NPC commoners, the DCs are really low.)  

In any case, the problem is really more that you still have to just wait around to get your Fairy xp, which is a huge killer of motivation (gonna drop some psych knowledge right quick, so bear with me).  Leveling a PC is at its core a pleasure and reward seeking behavior, which here, for the first 14 levels is directly related to your efforts and play time doing cool, adventuring things, which partially explains why people can and do rocket to 14th fairly quickly.  However, when you suddenly introduce a new aspect to leveling which makes it impossible to level your PC by hunting which then gradually overtakes hunting as the source of xp, the impact of it is to punish those people who would use their PC in a manner that adventures should act, and to reward those who spend more time on the server, even if it is way less time hunting (which, in all fantasy RPGs is the main source of xp.  killing monsters that is.).  Even if the intent is not to punish, the psychological effect is one of punishment, as it is a negative change to the ability of a person to level their character in the manner they know is the way PCs are supposed to level.  Now, you may ask, why is it so damn important to level?

Welp, it's really important because...  the CR of everything on the server is hugely advanced beyond the PNP CR and abilities of the same monsters.  Hell, the weakest real dragon on the server does....  over 120 damage average with her breath weapon, every few rounds, which is over the average for the -most- powerful dragons' breath weapons in PNP, and her HP are way over the 660 average of the most powerful dragons in PNP, and to top it off...  she has the caster level of the oldest of dragons, with AC ridiculously higher than that of the oldest, most hardy dragons.  This means you have to be way over what you'd need to be in PNP or even base NWN to have a chance against these monsters.

Still, you might say, this is one NPC enemy.  Yes, she is, but, and this is a huge but, she's an example, and not even one of the more ridiculous ones.  I could go on for a while about the various ways in which NPCs have been boosted, but it wouldn't make my point any more.  The fact of the matter is, unless you're willing to hunt trolls, Witch Lords' and the moonsea ride until you hit 20 from fairy and a smattering of events, you're going to be sitting on your butt, discussing things, and hoping to make a tiny bit of difference in DM events where everyone else is throwing around huge stat bonuses and skill-rolls (from the wide availability of skill boosting, stacking bonuses), at which point, you're still gaining similar amounts of xp once you hit your hunting cap for the level.

Personally, I'd say there is an easy solution for this, given that the number of skill-boosting items won't be reduced, per server policy, and given that to compete at any of the interesting dungeons, you have to be in a massive party of APL 18+, or a close to epic ECL, I would think a softcap fairy which increases the amount of xp you can hunt, but say 10 points a tick, and say allows you to gain a max of...  say 2 k huntable per week (or whatever is more amenable).  This would slow level progression, but would also preserve the feeling of achievement, as you'd never really be reduced to weeks of straight waiting on an xp tick to level, and you could actually advance with dungeon-related, or combat related RP, as PCs have been designed to advance for all of the time the Faerunian RP setting has been around.

As for making your own plot here, well, I don't know about any changes to server policies of god-moding, but I've sure seen a lot of what even the most lenient DMs would consider to be god-moding in terms of RP and such since returning.  So I guess my question for story-lines is:  Do you no longer need a DM to speak for NPCs your PC might be interacting with?  

[Valimar Dragonbane]

I'm going to do a quick chime in here - the fairy xp cap has been massively lowered.  Monster XP can now be gained for a goodly amount of the teen levels.

Also, the aforementioned pre-scripted quests.

[Kymus]

Feel you, Lola. I'm not the best RP person, and I'm def not one to approach others that I do not know and start RP with them. Before the auto fairy XP system was in place, it was very difficult for me to level since I'd just be off on my own. I'm just naturally introverted and shy when it comes to dynamic conversation, so all that is a hindrance to my RP ability (and generally playing characters that aren't that chatty doesn't help much). The fairy is a godsend for me, since the friends I used to play with don't play on here anymore (it's been many years.. >_<).

To echo what others have said, the level caps are for encouraging character growth. I hate to say it, but I think it is a bit of a good thing (the level to which is of course debatable). I've been playing like an addict lately (I did say it was like crack) and I've shot my characters up to nearly lv 10 in maybe a week's time. I know that lv 10 isn't comparable to lv 14 or lv 18, etc. but before the fairy XP, I was stuck... forever... at just the first soft cap, and that's because it's difficult for me to say "hey, I don't know this person, but I'm going to start a conversation with them". So again, always by myself.

I feel like I'm sorta jumping around and not answering things one by one... sorry.. >_<

Anyway, on one hand, I see the benefit of the xp caps because they slow down level progression and that in turn allows you to spend more time with your character and that in turn means more growth. On this server, that's paramount, as I'm sure you know.

On the other hand, it's not a perfect system. It's difficult for people like myself that are socially awkward and can't just chat it up with people (seriously, I don't yak this much outside of the forum ). This is also tough for those that play at odd times, etc. Basically, those that experience RP challenging of some sort.

As for adventuring once you're capped. This may vary from person to person. I personally don't mind. I'll play all day even after my XP is capped. But that may be because of the characters I use; they're better suited for that. I'll throw you a PM with some suggestions for money making. I'm sure there are others on here that are better at making money when they're poor, but maybe I can help too?

As for earning something while capped, I think that, again, depends on the individual and the character. I have a lot of fun going to certain dungeons because the loot is rewarding (good chance of finding something useful and at least some semi-rare items). This may not be as rewarding for you (or it may be that you feel your characters aren't strong enough, etc.), so if that's the case, then I'm not being much help >_>;;.

[ThayanKnight]

As previously stated, the system just recently was updated to allow the cap to be more manageable in the teens. Is it perfect? Nope, there's not a perfect system out there or we'd all use it. But it is one of the better systems. My playtime hours are generally off prime time server hours, thus I get to see very few DM events (unless I schedule them and/or make the fiance irate). The fairy is great for that, and keep you earning something. Still yet, since we a re discussing, I would like to throw in a couple of the suggestions I enjoy.

-Have a weekly maximum of DM XP. This would keep a nice balance. If you do a lot of quests, your fairy XP would reduce so that you can earn the same amounts through both avenues rather than them stacking so the ones who are in every quest don't rocket up.

-After meeting the level cap on hunting xp, all enemies that would normally give xp, give 1 xp just to have some gain, no matter how small.

[The Red Mage]

Feb 4, 2014 12:04:21 GMT -5 ThayanKnight said:

-After meeting the level cap on hunting xp, all enemies that would normally give xp, give 1 xp just to have some gain, no matter how small.

I like this idea, still. Some people think it would cause people to be out and about all the time farming xp to level. Is that such a bad thing when it is soooo much easier to start DM events or adhocs for people when their out and about doing something? And how much XP per level are we talking with 1 XP per kill? A few hundred? A day or twos worth if someone farms heavily. An extra 20-50 if someone does a dungeon a day?

Could cap this at around level 18 or so, and only have bosses drop a small XP bonus for level 18 beyond. Otherwise, you need to get personal/ server plots moving to prep for ascension.

[Ebola Lola]

Thanks everyone, I still think the caps could/should be changed. I spend A LOT of hours (7-13 a day some days more) on the server, and I still miss events, I have done most of the low level quests and I'm only lvl 10 still. as for the fairy I only see it a few times when Im on and 10xp 3 times a day isnt going to get me over the cap in a timely manner. Its not about having cool gear or anything like that. Its about being able to RP and no always be the weak one for the rest of time. By the time you reach level 14 the people that was 14 are now 18. I do not know how people are leveling so quickly :S. I do spend a lot of time here and I can not level fast and Im always looking for a way to gain what little ground I can.

I like adventuring around the server finding cool stuff and new hunting spots but I stumble onto a lot nasty buggers that kill me in two hits. I would just like to have it balanced out so we do not have to have a DM hold our hand or have to find a higher level to help us all the time. Yes I know some places need groups and thats alright but going into the goblin place takes an army around me so i stay alive. By the time i can kill the goblins on my own they give me nothing.  Im just saying it suck is all.

And as for talking to the right people in RP, well I try to talk to everyone I see, now if their toon ICly is nice or not that isnt something I can control lol. Though It seems that most do not like my main girl (lvl 11), and I only have one other I play. So its a little disheartening to spend as much time as i do on CD to not get really anywhere

[ThayanKnight]

The fairy should kick in every 6-10 minutes assuming you are actively RPing or doing something. For a max of 300/day

[Ebola Lola]

Well Im starting to think making clothing isnt active enough :S or walking around the server/towns seeing everything

[daphne]

Some notes on the fairy:

You should be getting 300 xp per day if you play and are active for four hours. This means being on the server (not in the OOC room) and moving around or talking. If you are out hunting you still get the fairy. If you aren't then something is wrong although I have never seem the fairy mess up for one person and not the other.

Some notes on leveling:

READ the forums!  POST on the forums! We have posted events where we go out looking for players cause not enough signed up. That is dm-granted XP ripe for the taking. And you may be able to help influence plots and get xp just for forum posts. I have done this in the past and have a couple of active threads where I will be granting more upon conclusion. But it also helps to get your character more known by others and fleshed out

You can also post quest requests. I try to make responses to all of them even if the response is 'sorry cant help'.

Involve other people!  The servers primary goal is NOT to see how many epic characters we can create but to tell stories. No story worth reading IMHO only has one character. You are far more likely to get picked up in quests and find things to do with other people.

A specific - I know that in the couple of auctions I have run some people expressed dissatisfaction. It is disheartening to see something you fancy and then have the second bid top your total wealth. Believe me I share your pain - Carys really wanted a plushie!  I have received some suggestions tho so that next time I can guarantee there will be some nifty stuff that everyone will have a chance at r regardless of wealth.

I personally find the rate of leveling to be ok - but that is just me. I hope that people take some of these thoughts and can use them to increase their own personal satisfaction.

[Yaldabaoth]

Feb 4, 2014 13:31:44 GMT -5 Ebola Lola said:

Well Im starting to think making clothing isnt active enough :S or walking around the server/towns seeing everything

Another thing I have noticed is that what, exactly, you are doing seems to affect how much the xp tics fire.  I don't know if this is intentional, but if you are RPing with other players, running dungeons with other players present, etc, you get fairies at a much faster rate.  I've noticed several times, running dungeons by myself, that i've gone an entire hour and only recieved three or four xp tics.  When i'm sitting around RPing with people I get many more tics.

Mind you, i've played here since 2009 and still have yet to hit epic with even a single character, so take my advice with a grain of salt.

[Lumnakar]

Feb 4, 2014 15:26:24 GMT -5 Yaldabaoth said:

... played here since 2009 ...

What a newbie...

Oh wait, I've never had an epic either. Let's be friends. Best friends!