Transparency with voice chat.

[lurkerabove]

So I'm going to open up this can of worms, because it's been digging at me for a while.

The staff of CD like to talk about being transparent. We have documentation in the forum, in persistent logs on Discord chats, except for one.

There's been an increasing trend of using the voice channel. This of course excludes players who can't — or won't — voice with other people over Discord. The concern this brings up with me, is that it has given a channel that is completely untraceable, and unaccountable, for the player base at large. This actually applies not only to those who choose not to voice at all, but who can't be in the room around the clock when others discuss stuff.

So we get to miss out on things discussed about our server. More concerning, what might be discussed about other players who aren't present to answer for the topic at hand.

I think if this server wants to be truly transparent, there needs to be a text transcript of the discussions made in voice. That, or else the voice channel needs to be off limits for discussion of anything server related.

I mean, those of us who are left out would have to actually trust that anything said in the voice chat is being accounted for. But we already have to trust that now, and that's a little hard when it gets back to someone that they were talked about in the room.

At least there can be a gesture. We shouldn't have to be in the voice, to be "in" with the server.

[Edge]

To be blunt, an actual transcript of all dialogue in voice chat is impossible. There's too much going on and people come and go, and people talk too fast for anyone who isn't a professional stenographer to keep up with. None of us are that, and we definitely don't have the time to become so. We have jobs.

As for using the voice chat for making server decisions, the admins have recently made a declaration to the staff on this subject, so I'm going to copy-paste a portion of that here that applies to non-staff members as well.

With the recent popularity of voice chat, we've received some concerns regarding the usage of the chat by the admin team.  There is a lingering perception that server decisions are being made "on the fly" in voice chat, with no documentation.  We (the admins) want to reassure our DM team that any policy changes, application decisions, and player/DM complaints are not decided within voice chat.  We have a separate Discord channel and forum where decisions are discussed privately, as they always have been, before being implemented on the server.  When appropriate, we will also ask for input from the SDM team in their Discord channel as well.

This is not to say that we don't discuss suggestions in voice chat among the players and staff that choose to use it.  However, in the end, any "official" suggestions and/or complaints are referred to the appropriate forum or Discord channel.  The preferred method regarding player issues and/or complaints is to submit a feedback form on the forum.

[Fire Wraith]

In addition to what Edge said, keep in mind that I and many other staff members don't join in voice chat either.

[Sir Ven]

Evening,

You've started your post with the line "I'm going to open up this can of worms".   I'm reading this to be an acknowledgement, there's a risk of this being a contentious issue.   With that in mind, let me start by saying I believe I understand where your coming from and, to an extent, agree with the principle of consistent transparency and inclusion you've raised.   That being said, I disagree overall with the proposal, for a few reasons.

1.  The staff do show transparency - but the Discord voice chat isn't a staff tool.  It's something there for the player base.    As a community, I don't think we can ask or require our players to have conversations with their gaming buddies logged and published.  

2.  The staff are transparent about outcomes, but not the process - honestly, I don't think they should they be.   Taking the example of player bans, if the staff were to post screenshots and transcripts of discussions which lead to a player's ban it's probably only going to embarrass whoever was banned and infuriate their friends.  While the Discord voice chat isn't a staff tool, if there was ever something that was discussed which prompted out an outcome or an action I have as much trust in the staff to then post that on the public forums as if they'd had that discussion in the staff forums, or by any other method which we can't all witness. 

3. Personal data and identity is a big thing.   Personally, I would not be happy with something I said in Discord being recorded and published - not that I think I say anything outrageous but I value my privacy and I'm quite careful (usually) about how much i give away about my "real life self".  That said, start publishing every word  I say, or others say about me, and with enough patience someone can starting piecing together the bits of the puzzle, learning about me without ever actually speaking to me.  I'm just not okay with that. 
    
4. Volume, simple volume.  I'm guestimating here, but I think the Discord has ~10+ people in, at one time, every day.   The sheer length and volume of any transcript makes the suggestion of reading said transcript impractical.  What's more likely is that people will search for specific key words, or terms (like their own name, for example) and take whatever they read out of context from the broader conversation.  This risks doing more harm than good. 

5. Technology.   Nobody is realistically going to sit and write out the transcript from the discord chat, nobody's getting paid for this and I don't believe we have the technology to make it happen.


---

Now, forgive me if I'm wrong - but I'm going out on a limb here and guessing your concern about Discord only being used by some is that it creates a risk of an "inner circle" of sorts.   Those who are both friendlier with the staff/admins who also use Discord, but also get some sort of special insight into what's going on behind the scenes.    I'm not going to pretend that isn't a risk, I think it's probably a near-certainty.   That being said, having been in the Discord chat myself, I don't think I'm especially wiser or receiving preferential treatment.

I welcome posts such as this and feedback in all it's forms, you've raised a concern here and I think that it reflects incredibly well on the community that you know you're able to do so and that it is safe to do so.   There are both communities and employers where that trust doesn't exist.     I also think all of the admins genuinely want to be good admins, good people and kind to their player base.   I trust them enough that it's enough for me - and I guess if I ever find myself in a day where that trust has gone, it's time for me to move on - because there's a far deeper and more serious issue at hand.    I don't believe posting a transcript of Discord conversations would help to build that trust.

I would go one further and say that the CD I am playing on and enjoying lately is more inclusive than the CD I first played on over a decade ago.   Possibly simply because of the age of the game - those who are still playing NwN after so long are likely those looking for a community - and the very idea of a community is a group of people looking out for each other.    So while Discord could certainly be a risk, I think as long as we can continue to trust each other and the staff - and as long as we continue to be honest with ourselves and each other, it's not such a great risk that we need to worry about managing it.

Thanks,

 - Ven


Edit - I should caveat this clearly with "Not a staff member.  Just an opinion. "

[Epi]

I just hop in there to hear dirty jokes and listen to people randomly laugh out loud at things they are enjoying IG. Never heard the DMs actually talk about anything that's mentioned being a possible issue. That said, I'm just a new member on this server/discord.

[canticleofcocytus]

Sir Ven summed things up nicely, but just to add in as a member of this community who doesn't often jump on voice chat besides the one we have for the Sins of the Father:

1) I avoid voice chats with so many people in part because it's often impossible to tell who is talking or what's going on. It just becomes white noise to me, and I'm not encouraged to really participate.

2) In the past I've been pulled into voice chat to "resolve player grievances" . . . it was miserable - I believe - for all parties involved, and if there was a transcript of those conversations not only would I be embarrassed, but so would some members of the staff - this happened literal years ago, and I don't think any of us want that held over our head.

3) To be blunt: different people have different standards of conversation. For my part, anyone who has talked to me when I'm being myself will tell you that I am loud, somewhat obnoxious, fun, and often lewd. That's me when I'm having fun - which is what I come to CD to do, and what I try to do on Discord most of the time. Having a running record of the things I say when I'm relaxing could literally jeopardize my job if someone chose to make an issue of it, and anyone on the server who works in education is at risk of the same. That would force us into the position of not relaxing in voice or not logging onto voice. This would really suck for those who like to socialize through the voicechat.

4) In the past, I have voice chatted with admins and assumed that things they talked about were legitimate rulings - in error. This was an assumption on my part with honestly little to no basis, when the reality is they were just venting / expressing frustrations to a friend. I think you may be in a similar position now as to what I was then. Trust me when I tell you that admin discussions may begin because of something said in voice chat, but they do not end there. And, honestly, nothing really ever gets decided on until they've spent like a month or more talking about it.

5) You shouldn't worry about other players talking about you. They probably are if your rp is gripping and they've found engagement with it. Take it as a compliment. That said, be realistic: in nearly all forms of gaming there is ranting, venting, and smack talk. There is very likely no player on the server who has not been the brief target of such. You can choose to take egregious offense at this fact and try to go on a witch hunt for everyone who ever said something cross about you (been there, done that, it sucks), or you can just accept that it's something that happens and ignore it. Alternatively, if you're really bothered, you can go to the admins about it (though it seems silly to do that over someone poking fun at you in voice).

My last bit of advice is simply this: if you choose to worry about what's said in voice, then it behooves you to join it when you can and see for yourself. If you choose not to join it, you should also choose not to worry about it. That's my philosophy.

[kingofaquilonia]

Long story short... Relax. I've had my problems with some of staff here and there but even I am not worried about what staff says in voice chat. There are plenty of non staff members in voice chat too. It's not like its restricted either, just pop in for yourself and give a listen. Also if by some chance someone DOES speak about another player in the voice chat? Don't worry about it, shame on them for being a coward and talking behind someone's back. You're better than them for not engaging in that sort of activity. People who can't say those things to the face of those they are talking about are not worth your time or concern.