Assassin - Evasion feat and traps cap

[drakaden]

Something that dawned on me in my new build, the assassin cannot disarm complex traps like a rogue and doesn't have evasion, yet they are just as proficient about it than rogues, it would make them to have the assassin be able to handle these traps and be able to evade damage.

If the trap cap cannot be changed due to hardcoding, can we at least get evasion in the level up feats?

[Deleted]

The trap thing is hardcoded.

Assassins never have received evasion, and do not receive them in PnP.  Evasion is not a "feat".  It is a class ability of specific classes.

[Nokteronoth]

See this thread here.

I was thinking it was a reason to take Rogue. Because otherwise, Assassin is just overall better than it. Assassins get most of the same skills, slightly less skill points, HIPS (Which is a must for most sneaker builds), the same damage dice from sneaks, and a nifty Death Attack. Give them traps, too, and the only reason for taking Rogue would be that it has no requirement feats, your alignment, or wanting ED (Which you can take as an SD with less levels!)

Note that you can still flag/reclaim traps, just not disarm them.

~BR

[Yaldabaoth]

Jan 26, 2016 13:02:09 GMT -5 Nokteronoth said:

See this thread here.

I was thinking it was a reason to take Rogue. Because otherwise, Assassin is just overall better than it. Assassins get most of the same skills, slightly less skill points, HIPS (Which is a must for most sneaker builds), the same damage dice from sneaks, and a nifty Death Attack. Give them traps, too, and the only reason for taking Rogue would be that it has no requirement feats, your alignment, or wanting ED (Which you can take as an SD with less levels!)

Note that you can still flag/reclaim traps, just not disarm them.

~BR

Rogue also gets twice the skill points, and access to crippling strike, defensive roll, and improved evasion.

[Edge]

Well, not quite twice. 8+INT per level for Rogue (the highest in the entire game, and even in PnP only like two other classes - Factotum for certain, maybe one other - get that much) versus 6+INT for Assassin.

[drakaden]

I still think evasion would make sense for assassins to acquire even if it not received by default and would bring it more up to pace with rogue, because that paralyzing attack is too situational to even judge it as more useful than the rogue's unique feats, i'd like to see the assassin to receive a small buff so they can be to the rogue level, because right now they are inferior.

[Garage Trashcan]

Assassins aren't inferior to rogues. They have different toolsets for balance purposes.

You take rogue levels to be a rogue.

You take assassin levels to be an assassin.

And I wouldn't cast Death Attack aside so easily. If you've got 14 INT (and as an assassin, you should) it's pretty easy through buffs +1 piece of gear to hit 20+ Int. You've got five (and you should be dual-wielding) (six with haste) attacks per round and with the "favorite" Assassin level pickup of 8 or 9 levels, you're looking at 22+ DC, which is nothing to laugh at. If your new build of Wiz/EK/Assassin is to be looked at, we're talking nearly 30 DC. Sure, a lot of things on the server are immune to it, but there's also a lot on the server that isn't, even at 18+ and epic.

[onivel]

At the end of the day, every class cant have every skill/ability. There are intentionally built in trade offs for balance.

[Yaldabaoth]

Jan 26, 2016 13:20:08 GMT -5 Edge said:

Well, not quite twice. 8+INT per level for Rogue (the highest in the entire game, and even in PnP only like two other classes - Factotum for certain, maybe one other - get that much) versus 6+INT for Assassin.

Assassins receive 4+int.  It is one of two reasons that int is such a crucial stat for assassins (the other being death attack)

[Edge]

Jan 26, 2016 18:49:07 GMT -5 Yaldabaoth said:

Jan 26, 2016 13:20:08 GMT -5 Edge said:

Well, not quite twice. 8+INT per level for Rogue (the highest in the entire game, and even in PnP only like two other classes - Factotum for certain, maybe one other - get that much) versus 6+INT for Assassin.

Assassins receive 4+int.  It is one of two reasons that int is such a crucial stat for assassins (the other being death attack)

Huh. I could've sworn it was 6, but apparently not. I even checked the Pathfinder version to make sure I wasn't getting it confused with the 3.0/NWN version, but no it's still 4 there too.

I guess it's never been more obvious than now that I don't play Roguey characters, huh?

[Yaldabaoth]

Jan 26, 2016 19:34:14 GMT -5 Edge said:

Jan 26, 2016 18:49:07 GMT -5 Yaldabaoth said:

Assassins receive 4+int.  It is one of two reasons that int is such a crucial stat for assassins (the other being death attack)

Huh. I could've sworn it was 6, but apparently not. I even checked the Pathfinder version to make sure I wasn't getting it confused with the 3.0/NWN version, but no it's still 4 there too.

I guess it's never been more obvious than now that I don't play Roguey characters, huh?

If it were up to me, they would get 6+int.  4 is very constraining for all the skills they need to function.  My assassin has a whopping 8 ranks in open lock, for example.

[thorien]

Yes, the 4+int is a major pain when it comes to assasin

[trylobyte]

As I see it, Rogue is meant to be a more general-purpose thiefy sneaky type, while Assassin is someone specializing in the stealthy elimination of people.  So I can see why there would be a big difference.  Some rambling talking points:

1)  Assassins are trained specifically to kill people.  It makes sense they may not be as good with traps as someone that steals for a living, since traps are often part of a static defense (which thieves will have to deal with a lot) while assassination targets move around and thus are rarely as defended by traps.  Only a certain type of assassin is likely to ever have to deal with them (See #3).

2)  Assassins having fewer skill points than rogues is a demonstration of their more narrow focus and limited exposure...  but also of the fact they're meant to be an Intelligence-based class.  Assassin gets fewer skillpoints not only because they need fewer skills but because it's expected they'll have a higher than average Intelligence bonus to make up for it, on account of the fact their spells and class abilities scale with Intelligence.  Additionally, the classes Assassins come from tend to have the highest numbers of available skillpoints (Rogues, Rangers, Bards) so They still have plenty to splash in for more 'fluffy' skills.

3)  Assassins that rely entirely on sneaking, the kind that are most likely to break into someone's house in the dead of night and thus have to deal with traps, are generally Rogues to begin with since the two classes synergize extremely well in that context.  Some assassins tend to rely less on Hide/MS and HiPS and more on other ways of getting close without being suspicious (For example, a bard using Alter Self and Bluff/Persuade to talk their way in).  There's a reason most people tend to assume an Assassin has rogue skills as well - It's because they are so often Rogue/Assassins.  So they can already disarm traps!

[Edge]

Trylo makes a pretty good point.