Pale Mastery, Necromancy, Ect

[TheWrathOfInnos]

So since Pale Master doesn't gut your progression here I'm thinking it'd be interesting to try and roll one. I also noticed that the law thread doesn't actually have any provisions against undead. I'd imagine though that that falls under the whole 'common sense' thing, as in don't wander around Arabel with your pet mummy, but would it be a death sentence to use undead ever, around anyone, even outside of city limits? I'm not a fan of class features that boil down to 'use me and perish', so knowing if using about half my kit (All the non-passives) would mark me as kill on sight would help decide if I want to try out this character.

Now that said, as PM doesn't go past 10 here, the actual, uh, use of the non-passive features is quite limited (Fear my sub-20 dead arm DCs and rather disappointing summons that pale in comparison to the base summoning line here), so I could live well enough without using them but it's still a clarification I'd like to talk about.

[Nokteronoth]

Yeah, pretty sure Undead are illegal in/around Cormyr even if you aren't in the city. Kimbell keeps any raising strictly to when I'm off solo-ing, and even then she prefers to use her Slaadi. (Mind, she isn't a PM, either.)

As far as I've been able to tell otherwise, most people don't care about it as long as you don't go around spouting "I'm a necromancer, come get me!" . . . .Kimbell does, mind, but she keeps her public activities to undead-eradication more than anything else.

The class features are pretty useless considering it's a standard summon, DCs, etc, but you could have some fun RP in the right circles.

~BR

[carp6]

I think that Some PCs don't care so much.....and Some do....That's why its called RP.  I know that some PCs would prolly smite you dead right then.  You will just have to figure out which ones don't mind the dead being raised and which ones do.  

I think the class was suppose to have an upgrade on its summons but that is for Vincent to answer.  

[Deleted]

I agree for the most part with Nokteronoth.

However, the class features of Stun, Hold, Paralyze, Critical and Sneak Immunity are still incredibly valuable. There is also the bonus HP which comes in very useful as a mage.

The summons are standard NWN ones and based off the PM Level, not your total Levels, meaning they suck. All of them. Vincent has mentioned possibly redoing them at some point however but I don't think it is high on the priority list so don't expect it soon if you decide to go PM.

[TheWrathOfInnos]

Yeah that's what I was thinking. The passive class features are excellent and the RP from just those/the general undead interest is reasonably enticing. That the active features, the ones that would put you on a death list if used more than likely, are -really really bad- doesn't hurt things too much. Much easier to just hide your spooky skeltal arm instead of having to hide your summons and not poke things to death.

[Deleted]

What about the physical side of being a PM. One does not delve into the deathless arts without some obvious tell tale signs? The bone arm for one *even if it's mechanically inferior*. Also, how does one justify the crit immunity through RP. I understand that it has to do with some sort of necromantic applications to the body or something?

I mean....really, how easily is something like that concealed, or even to what extent? 1 lvl of PM..ok, sure maybe easy enough....but 10 lvls? where is the line? Dragon kin for example. Early on, the signs are slight....later on....wings or the like. Eventually, it becomes /really/ easy to tell. The game engine is far to limited, and 'what you see is what you get' is just poor RP, imo.

[Vincent07]

Raising undead is a crime in Cormyr.

Secondarily, if you are seen with the undead arm thing visible, you will be treated as a monster by the Guards and slain.

As to the class itself, its passives (ac bonus, crit immunity) are the most useful parts.  Its summons may get revised at some point, but given you'll have access to the standard mage summons, it isn't very high on my list at present.

[TheWrathOfInnos]

The crit immunity is (I believe) through organ rearrangement/mummification/something or another. Basically you either put your organs places where the foes wouldn't think to poke you for maximum damage, or you make them essentially redundant/useless so that even if your lung gets ran through you can still function. That's how I've always seen it RPed at least.

Bone Skin would be the other telltale trait, in its own ways. Your skin gets somewhat tough, hardened, dead-person like. Porcelain is how I've seen some PMs describe it, or more macabre ways for other ones. It would be obvious if you were close to one and stared at them for awhile, or touched them, that something is 'weird' about their skin. But couldn't we say the same thing for anyone that's under a Stoneskin spell, or many other spells? It's a possible RP tell route, but it's not immediately obvious either.

Vigor is meant to represent some form of toughness that's innate to undead, so again you just seem sturdier, more implacable.

The way I've always interpreted it and seen it played out is that so long as you're not in close contact, being touched, peered at forever, Detect Undead'd on, and so forth, a hooded/robed mage can basically pass off as normal.

[Edge]

Detect Undead wouldn't even work, since a Pale Master isn't actually undead - just has a lot of undead-like traits.

[Deleted]

Feb 10, 2016 16:15:47 GMT -5 TheWrathOfInnos said:

The crit immunity is (I believe) through organ rearrangement/mummification/something or another. Basically you either put your organs places where the foes wouldn't think to poke you for maximum damage, or you make them essentially redundant/useless so that even if your lung gets ran through you can still function. That's how I've always seen it RPed at least.

Bone Skin would be the other telltale trait, in its own ways. Your skin gets somewhat tough, hardened, dead-person like. Porcelain is how I've seen some PMs describe it, or more macabre ways for other ones. It would be obvious if you were close to one and stared at them for awhile, or touched them, that something is 'weird' about their skin. But couldn't we say the same thing for anyone that's under a Stoneskin spell, or many other spells? It's a possible RP tell route, but it's not immediately obvious either.

Vigor is meant to represent some form of toughness that's innate to undead, so again you just seem sturdier, more implacable.

The way I've always interpreted it and seen it played out is that so long as you're not in close contact, being touched, peered at forever, Detect Undead'd on, and so forth, a hooded/robed mage can basically pass off as normal.

So how does it compete/compare against a character that has invested in their detection skills vs the PM that is simply using the game animations to 'cover' up?

[Deleted]

Disguise skill, alter self, etc. are highly valuable in those situations.

[Deleted]

Alter Self doesn't work on the arm visually btw. Would be good to have a ruling on it from an RP perspective?

[destinysdesire]

I would think a smart PM is gonna study a bit of Illusion magic to create the illusion of having skin over their bone arm, or always keep it covered.

[Deleted]

Also, it becomes a bit metagamey, and cumbersome when people have TS up. There is no animation, so nothing to justify a question. And I can't see the player of a character that had something to hide sending everyone in the area a tell saying 'do you have TS up, btw?"

[TheWrathOfInnos]

I will admit to being a bit wary of the idea that an entire character could be destroyed on basis of failing a skill check one had no way of passing (Level 10 vs a level 25, for example). So I'd hope that there'd need to be some suspicion/interest garnered beforehand and not just 'I look really intently at anyone I ever meet ever'.