Some thoughts on RP/Lore, IC vs OOC, and when it conflicts

[Fire Wraith]

Hey everyone,

So we've had a number of new(er) players come through, some of whom may have some, little, or even no knowledge of the Forgotten Realms, I figured I'd toss some things out there on how we see it all fitting together in a roleplay environment. We do want to try and maintain consistent lore, because it's really difficult to play when nobody can agree on how the world works (or similar). At the same time, we don't want to require anyone to complete a dissertation on FR in order to play here - we want to welcome everyone, and get them involved, and they can pick things up as they go. Lastly, we also want to avoid things breaking down into arguments, because that's really not fun for anyone involved.

So what does that all mean?

Well, for one, here are my thoughts on how I try to handle it.

1) People can be ICly wrong
There's nothing that says people in FR know everything about their world. Look at how many people don't even agree on facts in our modern world in the information age, and imagine how that would be in a medieval or renaissance era. Back in those days people believed things like that the earth was flat, or that the sun revolved around the earth. So, it's perfectly fine if characters are ICly wrong about stuff, even if you think the player should know better.

If it's somehow something critical to your character, then it's likely best to get one of the admins, though hopefully this won't be the case. We'd much rather have someone bring something to us than have it turn into a big argument that spills from IC into OOC.

2) Corrections are best kept as mild suggestions at most, and with an IC 'out'
If someone is clearly off base about something, it usually helps to respond in a way that gives them an excuse and lets them save face. For instance, someone with a book knowledge of the FRCS but not about our in-game events might assume that Myrmeen Lhal is still in charge of Arabel, rather than having gone to command the garrison in Castle Crag. Responding with something like "Oh, hadn't you heard?" can work better than just OOCly correcting them. Similarly, even an OOC correction might go something on those lines of "Your character might not know/be aware of X, but my understanding is that the server has always played that it's really Y". Tone is also key - "I may be wrong, but it was my understanding that X isn't the case, it's Y, you might want to check with the admins" comes off better than "You're wrong, it's Y".

And of course, direct any questions to us.

Anyone else have any thoughts/suggestions for how to help newer players, or resolve such things?

[theshobit]

I'd like to see this information in the journal. Could be "Nobility and People of Note" or simply "People of Note" heading? This way... it is accessible when veteran players or staff aren't around to offer guidance. Include the name, title and a brief overview of their responsibilities and influences. Just something to provide working knowledge until the player hops on the forums for more detailed information or is able to ask someone. Sound good?

[foo]

It would be nice to have a CD chronicle timeline with some loose information on what's happened publicly so far. If for no other reason than it would be an awesome credit to the efforts of players so far. If we really want to go banannas maybe we can employ some of our artistic tallents and illustrate some awesome document

[Edge]

I've actually wanted to see about putting together a CD Wiki or something... I vaguely recall someone suggesting doing so in the past, but either it never got around to happening or it didn't stick around long if it did.

I sure as heck know I wouldn't mind putting my DM plots and the things my characters have done on there, and I wouldn't mind working with a few volunteers for purposes of quality control and such.

[foo]

Sept 11, 2015 9:54:47 GMT -5 Edge said:

I've actually wanted to see about putting together a CD Wiki or something... I vaguely recall someone suggesting doing so in the past, but either it never got around to happening or it didn't stick around long if it did.

I sure as heck know I wouldn't mind putting my DM plots and the things my characters have done on there, and I wouldn't mind working with a few volunteers for purposes of quality control and such.

liked, liked, a thousand times liked!

It does stuff

[Atomic Twinkie]

I can forge...I mean... art some documents and stuff, general IC lore stuff, for anyone that's interested. Send information my way and I can work on doing some things.

[ClockworkMayhem]

While I like the idea of a CD Wiki (Gatecrashers did the same way back in the day, and I loved that thing - it was fun to do PC write-ups from an IC perspective on them) I do think there should be a caution given that just because it's on the wiki, just like it being in any source material, doesn't mean your PC knows it. Just because there's a note in the journal...doesn't mean your PC knows it. If they can't make the respective lore or knowledge check...they don't know it. They can think they do and be wrong, as Fire pointed out, and it's totally okay for a PC to be wrong, but accepting that means that we as players have to set aside our pride in our perceived knowledge of source and recognize that our characters are imperfect people, and just like us, sometimes they can be wrong - even when we are right on an OOC level.

[Nokteronoth]

A note to add to CM here, even if your character is right, I think we should be open to them being 'convinced' that they're wrong, even if you know better OOCly. People do that RL all the time, they convince other people of their bullshit despite the victim party being wiser in a particular case. Be open to the spreading of falsehoods! Let Cyric reign!

~BR

[sinisteromnibus]

Sept 11, 2015 16:46:00 GMT -5 Nokteronoth said:

A note to add to CM here, even if your character is right, I think we should be open to them being 'convinced' that they're wrong, even if you know better OOCly. People do that RL all the time, they convince other people of their bullshit despite the victim party being wiser in a particular case. Be open to the spreading of falsehoods! Let Cyric reign!

~BR

This would be the purpose of things like bluff and persuade, and while the server stance is that these skills are not required for player-to-player interactions, I often employ them myself to determine -how- to rp a situation rather than just as a number (big or small) that tells -another- player how they should react. So...if I roll low, I'll rp what my character says with hints and signs that it's not true or not convincing and so forth.

But I've been told by an admin before specifically that these 'social' skills are not required in player-to-player interactions unless a DM overseeing an event specifies they are. For non-overseen rp it is up to individual players whether or not they want to employ these skills and to what extent they can be effective.

[Fire Wraith]

Yes - we want to try and avoid anyone feeling like they're getting beaten over the head and forced to RP something they disagree with. Using social skills to resolve things is fine, as long as both players can agree on the terms of the check (like, I tell a lie, you try to see through it, or such). We'd rather avoid hurt feelings on stuff that edges into "what my character's RP is", because it's certainly possible for a player who knows OOCly that things are a certain way, to deliberately play an ignorant character, for instance.

[Dismus]

Edge you and I talked about setting up a CD timeline before my hiatus. I can  fill in a lot of story line between October 2006- May 2009 and August 2010- Feb 2014. I might still have my notes for this. I will need to look around.


forums.cormyrdalelands.com/index.php?topic=277

[Dismus]

If someone is looking for info on Cormyr or where to find  it. This link if you avoid the 4e stuff put at the begining has a ton of information on where to find info.

[onivel]

One thing I think should be included in any lore/timeline is to note the things that have not happened or have happened differently on CD from the canon books. Lolth's Silence for example never occurred on CD. A repercussion of that is that on CD's timeline Ched Nasad was not destroyed .  Events like this and others "from the books" in that whole series and many others did not occur. I don't think we need to go through ever book and say this did or did not happen, but major events from the books that some people may think have occurred should be specifically mentioned as having occurred or not.

[Dismus]

Totally agree. I always have to look at dates and events. Did it happen before 1372? Alright I am good.