Revamp Quest Request board

[Darvins]

Okay as it says on the tin, I presented one part of this in a different thread but to repeat. After a thread has sat in the Quest Request board for a month or so, a copy of it, should be posted to the DM sub-board and the question asked 'What was the issue with this, and how could the person alter this or other requests in the future to gain interest' Right now I feel that the Quest Request Board simply doesn't work, with the exception of RJ's wonderful Peanuts, which serves to help advance personal plotlines, it's easier to just grab a DM in game and ask them to run something for you.

This through favours certain people, those that frankly have good buddies that are DM's willing to do this for them. Which in turn, tends to leave very quickly to power groups forming, who dominate everything, drawing more people to them as the only way to get plotted, and usually said plot, is as a supporting character in the main power groups tales. No one can be the star all the time of course, but I do feel CD has a tendency to make some people the stars far more than is balanced.

So yes Feedback on ideas, so that instead of it being ignored or left to grow stale, you can quickly see what the problem was from too much detail not leaving enough to the DM to not enough Detail that DM's fel;t it was little more than a 'I want cool stuff' request. From unworkable to dull, constructive annoymous feedback can be a great help. Why that? As I also feel there is another reason that can stop people asking directly. The fear of putting someone on the spot, that they feel obligated to say yes, even if your idea has no appeal to them, for fear of insulting a friend. Some people don't like doing that either.

In short make the Quest Request system the same for everyone, not one that favours certain people over others. 

I think it would cut down on jealousy if everyone felt they had the same chance to advance their character, which I can say honestly, they don't currently feel just from talking to people.

((Edit I am not making this as an attack on those who do find themselves in this situation, I do not think it weird that people who find it easier to talk to DM's directly get to do these things. That's natural, especially in the current system. I think the system needs altering to make it so that it's less an issue who has a DM as a good friend for such things, because I think the current system maybe makes people feel that said people get an unfair advantage that makes them jealous.))

[dom101]

This through favours certain people, those that frankly have good buddies that are DM's willing to do this for them. Which in turn, tends to leave very quickly to power groups forming, who dominate everything, drawing more people to them as the only way to get plotted, and usually said plot, is as a supporting character in the main power groups tales.

I'd like to hear in depth about some instances you're referring to.  I have a feeling I know already, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

The fear of putting someone on the spot, that they feel obligated to say yes, even if your idea has no appeal to them, for fear of insulting a friend. Some people don't like doing that either.



In short make the Quest Request system the same for everyone, not one that favours certain people over others.

The quest request system is the same for everyone; just because some quests aren't preferred by some DM's doesn't mean it's one-sided.  It just means a DM prefers to spend their time with that plot/character/group of players.  DM'ing is a voluntary act, it will never be mandatory to run things if you're not interested.  That's a sure-fire way of having all DM's say 'Forget this', and then we have zero DM activity.

I think it would cut down on jealousy if everyone felt they had the same chance to advance their character, which I can say honestly, they don't currently feel just from talking to people.

I think they real way to cut down on jealousy is for people to understand it's a game and they may be forced to alter their story, or let the DM's determine the story for them, if they expect the DM award/attention.  Or.  Just play the game for fun, rather than advancement or worrying about what other people are getting.  This is a Roleplay server; roleplay begets advancement.

I think this thread will be a good place for these people you've spoken to, to voice their opinion.

[Darvins]

Dec 23, 2013 22:18:56 GMT -5 dom101 said:

This through favours certain people, those that frankly have good buddies that are DM's willing to do this for them. Which in turn, tends to leave very quickly to power groups forming, who dominate everything, drawing more people to them as the only way to get plotted, and usually said plot, is as a supporting character in the main power groups tales.

I'd like to hear in depth about some instances you're referring to.  I have a feeling I know already, but I don't want to jump to conclusions.

The fear of putting someone on the spot, that they feel obligated to say yes, even if your idea has no appeal to them, for fear of insulting a friend. Some people don't like doing that either.



In short make the Quest Request system the same for everyone, not one that favours certain people over others.

The quest request system is the same for everyone; just because some quests aren't preferred by some DM's doesn't mean it's one-sided.  It just means a DM prefers to spend their time with that plot/character/group of players.  DM'ing is a voluntary act, it will never be mandatory to run things if you're not interested.  That's a sure-fire way of having all DM's say 'Forget this', and then we have zero DM activity.

I think it would cut down on jealousy if everyone felt they had the same chance to advance their character, which I can say honestly, they don't currently feel just from talking to people.

I think they real way to cut down on jealousy is for people to understand it's a game and they may be forced to alter their story, or let the DM's determine the story for them, if they expect the DM award/attention.  Or.  Just play the game for fun, rather than advancement or worrying about what other people are getting.  This is a Roleplay server; roleplay begets advancement.

I think this thread will be a good place for these people you've spoken to, to voice their opinion.

Okay odd because every post you made in the other thread Dom about how you got your character advanced mentioned speaking to DM's directly. It's funny but yes you are an example of the way the current system favours certain personality types over others, and this is not an attack. It could be, but I am picking my words very carefully.

It's funny because at no point did I say players should be able to dictate to DM's what happens. I said the system should be changed so that instead of silence at a request to the DM board, players got feedback, constructive feedback so that in the future they could present an idea that was better suited to what DM's wanted.

You keep saying the stuff about 'Players should know they have to alter their ideas to help fit in with DM's' as if that wasn't understood. My point is that currently? Currently the silence you far more often get met with on the Quest Request Board means that it doesn't serve a purpose. My current point is, people should recieve feedback regardless of if they feel confident approaching a DM directly and putting them on the spot or not, so they can do that very thing. Alter their goals to help fit in with what a DM wants to do. If they are presenting an idea in the Quest Request board 100% wrongly, then they will do better if there is a post saying so than they will when it is met with 100% silence. 

This isn't about forcing DM's to do run stuff for players, it's about making sure every player gets the same chance at feedback and making a request that actually appeals to DM's. It's about making sure players know what a DM is looking for, and what they are not. It's about making it even which frankly right now it's not.

It's also not about me picking on specific instances and naming them, and thus derailing the thread, so I won't. I could but what good does that do anyone, by the nature of the net me stating certain things, would just make folks focus on the individual instances rather than the broad pattern, one that has been present, hell fuck it's been present since I have been here. I have seen the same pattern emerge time after time after time.

[dom101]

Okay odd because every post you made in the other thread Dom about how you got your character advanced mentioned speaking to DM's directly. It's funny but yes you are an example of the way the current system favours certain personality types over others, and this is not an attack. It could be, but I am picking my words very carefully.

I got my character advanced by Roleplaying, involving dozens of other players, taking initiative and creating content.  This is what we were talking about in the last thread, when people claimed we were getting off topic (Which apparently they had turned into 'free valar, give her spells').  I'm fine with you making it an attack if it gets us out of this 'place blame everywhere else passively but on my own shoulders' rut we seem to be in.  I am not trying to argue, I'd just like to get to the bottom of the veiled comments about how I seem to have cheated my way to advancing my character.  I back out of more quests than I'm involved in, so other people can have fun and enjoy the event.  If you don't believe me, feel free to ask any number of DM's that run things when I'm about.  I don't back out of them because I dislike xp, but because I value their plots moving along smoothly, and others getting to 'shine'.

I'll agree the quest request board needs to be changed, but I would instead of 'revamping' it, remove it altogether.  All too often people request something they want and aren't willing to submit to any consequences that may come along with it.

This isn't about forcing DM's to do run stuff for players, it's about making sure every player gets the same chance at feedback and making a request that actually appeals to DM's. It's about making sure players know what a DM is looking for, and what they are not. It's about making it even which frankly right now it's not.

I don't understand how it's not 'even' when anyone can talk to anyone, and the DM's openly invite conversation and communication.  If people choose not to take advantage of those opportunities, it's not on the staff to fix that.

It's also not about me picking on specific instances and naming them, and thus derailing the thread, so I won't.

This may prove detrimental to the idea of this thread as a whole, then.  Because without explaining what you mean, it seems to me you're complaining about DM favoritism, with specifics in mind, but when questioned refuse to express your complaint in detail.

[tenorgeneral]

I'm really not sure how what Darvins has said at all implies some of what you seem to be getting from it Dom.  Darvins' suggestion was for feedback on why events might not be taken up, which is a great idea, and this thread is not at all another place to rehash yet again the same exact posts from previous threads.

It's a little frustrating to have the same things brought up in thread after thread when they're not related to the topic being discussed (except in a very tangential an unimportant way).  Not -everything- has to be a pissing contest.

[Darvins]

Removing this post because Tenor is right, and I'm not having this become a pissing contest about a completly different subject.

[dom101]

Dec 23, 2013 23:06:13 GMT -5 tenorgeneral said:

I'm really not sure how what Darvins has said at all implies some of what you seem to be getting from it Dom.  Darvins' suggestion was for feedback on why events might not be taken up, which is a great idea, and this thread is not at all another place to rehash yet again the same exact posts from previous threads.

It's a little frustrating to have the same things brought up in thread after thread when they're not related to the topic being discussed (except in a very tangential an unimportant way).  Not -everything- has to be a pissing contest.

I haven't made any of it a pissing contest.  I'm referring to the veiled insults Darvins is throwing about.  Some of you may not want to deal with it or read about it, but if Darvins is going to passively accuse me of cheating or of receiving DM favoritism.  It's something I'm going to try to get to the bottom of.  I'm sorry if you're offended by that.

EDIT:  I don't have to have pissing contests.  I get stuff done IC'ly; predominantly player driven at that.

[Darvins]

*chuckles* that's not this thread. This thread is exactly what it says on the tin. The Quest Request are broken and would be better with Constructive Feedback, as they have been since before Valar was desperatly trying to get something going with you in the Undercity, and we where met with Silence. Something I know you got as frustrated about as me, as you kept saying so.

We even joked how frustrating it was to be met with silence, ah those where the days, right, when you complained about the same system your now defending.

This is about the current system being flawed nothing more nothing less. If I ever make a thread complaining about Bass, I'll name Bass in the title.

This is about being sick of putting ground work into ideas, getting players on board, then asking for a DM to help us run with the idea, and meeting with dead silence, and the chirping of crickets. Which I feel leads to jealousy when others do not suffer this problem, it is not an attack on people for not getting that problem, it's a attempt to over come that problem.

If you think it is an accusation of cheating, then... there is nothing I can do for you. Your wrong, I am not claiming I find Bass's current situation great, there are numerous issues with him that stretch credability to the limit and beyond as a Knight of Cormyr that I think are inane, but meh. I just happily give my characters the response of assuming it's all politics or he's a freak show, Marliirs pet Half-Demon and move on ICly.

[tenorgeneral]

If things are consistently perceived as veiled insults, maybe you should look at why you keep seeing insults in what people are saying, cause it's not always other people.  All I'm going to say is you're great at reading into things, and great at getting reactions from people which can then be read even further into.

Back on topic:
I 100% support the idea of revamping the quest requests section to provide feedback on why certain things might not be accepted, as communication is key to enjoying things for a lot of people.  And having an organized rather than ad hoc system of communicating player driven quest desires to DMs and feedback/DM interests in such player driven stuff to players is inherently superior as it makes the system more anti-fragile and less prone to people getting dropped by the wayside.

[Darvins]

Just to make clear, after talking it over with Dom. My point here is not to say anyone has been cheating or getting an unfair advantage. I apologise if my wording suggested such. My ideas are based solely on trying to combat any perception of unfairness that is false, but understandable, by helping people to work out why they are not getting picked up. Nothing more or less.

[dom101]

I admit I may read too far into certain posts, and apologize for side-tracking the thread.

Something should be done about the quest request thread, I agree.  But I have no constructive manner in which to alter it positively.

[Nova]

I'm sort of confused here, Darvins. What is the issue? I'm looking at your last two requests on the old forum.

www.createforum.com/cormyrdalelands/viewforum.php?f=8&mforum=cormyrdalelands  -- RedMage responded quickly and offered to help.

www.createforum.com/cormyrdalelands/viewtopic.php?t=19527&mforum=cormyrdalelands -- I offered to take this on, but was never filled in further or contacted.

I even recently asked if you wanted me to run anything for Valar. Like I said, all the times in the past when I inquired about it, I was told somebody else had it handled. If you want real time feedback to your requests, then stop being shy and approach one of us. We're adults, and won't go through with something we don't want to, nor hold anything against you for "putting us on the spot". It never hurts to ask.

[Darvins]

Those would be small things, and I should clarify small requests do get picked up pretty darned well. Heh I did reply to that thread where you offered by the way, just I didn't know the details, sorry. I couldn't tell you if it was claimed or not, sorry if that got lost on the way.

It's not so much the smaller things, and maybe it's me recalling old problems that are not any more present, DM staff has changed a lot, and maybe I need to bear that in mind. Vals stuff is from before you where a DM by the way, as I said DM staff has changed a lot, and I admit, you current DM's are ones I've not yet tried to submit big plans too.

I can just recall the frustration in the past of coming up with scheme and plot, and plan with Valar recruiting people, posting it, and getting silence. Asking why I was getting silence and getting silence. I think I stopped making big plans at that point. I started to feel Val was shooting herself in the foot, only so many times you can approach people with a idea for it never to happen before Icly folks start thinking your full of hot air.

I guess maybe, the goal is to make sure if I do start to think of big plans for Valar or Iyanna that... if they suck I'll find out so I can change it to something less sucky, instead of getting silence. Same for everyone else too, not just Valar, through I admit yes like most people, I'm making suggestions for things I'd really like to take advantage of, but for everyone too.

((Oh and that's not an insult to prior DM's I was one of those Prior DM's that was horrid at picking up ideas from the Quest Request Board, or in explaining why I didn't))

[The Red Mage]

I have a character from early 2008 that has similiar treatment(Cataline). She got to where I couldn't even play her, because a DM would begin a quest and then leave her in a life or death situation never to return again to the server. So, you're not the only person with these worries, and not likely the one most affected.

As far as replies go, I'm sure the reason is more or less DMs who aren't interested due to lack of expertise or lack of... interest are leaving it open for others to reply, and it starts an empty circle. There is no discussion between DMs on these requests, so that would be the place to start, so staff would be prompted to give players feedback on where and what they should do to entice DMs more.

[Not Batman]

I'll be honest, there's a lot on the forums to look over every day and tend to. I don't really look at the quest request board as I much more prefer people come -to- me personally if they want something ran. Nine times out of ten, if someone shows the same initiative they expect from the DMs and contact me personally, I'll do it if I think I can do the plot justice. I prefer this method and encourage it because it allows the players to choose which DM they think would be best, but a "Who shows up and wants it first" deal. I've had several players come to me asking for personal plots already and not turned down a single one, I've even offered a few to many people, you included Darvins. Just poke the DMs playerside, in a PM or however you choose instead of risking it getting lost in a thread. A lot of times, I hear about plots not getting picked up or things not happening just because a thread isn't checked often enough. Direct contact prevents that.

That being said, I more than welcome you to come to me if you wish for anything ran. I've even had players just come to me and say "Run something, don't care what" or "I really want character x in plot y, can we make that happen?" and boom, it was done.