Vandria: The Elven Goddess of JUSTICE!... Inquiry...

[Ogre Time Yay]

Okay, so I did alot of research on a Goddess of the Seldarine named Vandria, one that I haven't heard much about before my research, compared to other Seldarine gods and goddess. Seems information is limited on her, and upon reading what kind of folk worship her, I've seen LN, LG, NG, and those of her temple are said to be "Clerics".

Does Vandria have a group of Paladins of some sort? Does she even prefer to have paladins to her ways at all? I ask this because there aren't many paladins of the Elven faith, mostly because most elven deities are CG or CN (unless we want to delve into Drow deities too, extending that to CE as well). This brings up a thought to me because Vandria might be the only elven deity that is Lawful, Lawful Good to be exact, in which case would open up opportunities for paladins.

Thoughts? Confirmation?

[morwen]

I'd be glad if there was.. They let me be my Elven paladin on EFU. (And talk about sticklers for canon!) but not here.

[The Red Mage]

You can be an elven paladin of a non elven deity.

You could be a paladin of Torm and still pay respects to elven deities. Torm would just be your patron.

[Arya]

To my understanding, Vandria has paladins.  However...

She is also specific to the Oerth setting, if I am not mistaken.

So, whether an elf can be an elven paladin or not of her, I suppose, is up to the people in charge.  Though...the rules insist you would end up with an equivalent deity in that situation. Or rather, receiving powers from a similar deity.  Vandria's equivalent in the Forgotten Realms would be the Red Knight, likely.

Sincerely,
Arya

Postscript: In my opinion, some of the elven deities are NG or LG, or should be (including one Dae worships).  But eh. Vhaeraun used to be NE and is now CE. Someone decided all elven deities needed to be chaotic, at some point, probably. <.<

[Deleted]

Vandria is not of the Faerun pantheon.  From what I can tell, Arya's correct... her equivalent would be the Red Knight.

That said, there are rumors of Corellon paladins from 2nd Edition.  He wouldn't be the first chaotic deity with paladins (see Sune & Selune).  I think a reasonable argument could be made for an order of paladins under his patronage.

[Dismus]

Feb 11, 2014 15:42:25 GMT -5  @belladonna said:

That said, there are rumors of Corellon paladins from 2nd Edition........................... I think a reasonable argument could be made for an order of paladins under his patronage.

I completely agree with this statement.

[Dismus]

BTW... the entry for Corellon in Demihuman Deities notes several other knightly orders and organisations for elven worshippers of Corellon. Fellowship of the Forgotten Flower is the order of Elven Knights and Paladins. The book is 2nd Edition but has the info you are looking for.

[The Red Mage]

Keven is apart of that order and loosely apart of the Knaves of the Missing Page if you want a PC to hook you up in-game. I've been RPing him as just returning from Evereska.

[Arya]

I personally have no issues with elven paladins of Corellon. Then again, I try to work the material to help people make what they want, versus the alternative. :-D

Sincerely,
Arya

[Ogre Time Yay]

Thanks for all of the answers!
I was generally just curious about Vandria and why I haven't seen any elven paladins on the server.

[morwen]

I'd love to have one, but apparantly elves in FR are incapable of discipline. And somehow they have armies. Go figure.

[Voice of Kerensky]

It's perfectly possible to have an elven paladin of an elven pantheon deity. Unlike clerics, paladins do not need to be within one alignment jump from their deity. There are several canon examples of this, most notably the Order of the Ruby Rose, which includes paladins to a CG deity (Sune). This is because paladins are not necessarily following an LG dogma, they're following the dogma of their deity in a lawfully good manner.

Applying a personal, LG code to a character following a CG deity can lead to some interesting RP. I encounter the same thing with my paladin on the server, who follows an LN deity. Not only can she encounter evil within her church's own priesthood, but even potentially within her knightly order, as it allows non-paladins and does not have an alignment requirement other than non-chaotic.

It is worth nothing that I cannot think of any canon FR examples of elven paladins (though there are some very closely related prestige classes and what have you). However, it is also worth noting two things:

1) There is nothing that explicitly prohibits either paladins of CG deities or paladins of the Seldarine.

2) Baelnorns (elven protector-liches) can have their Baelnorniness gifted to them directly by the Seldarine, and Baelnorns are explicitly stated to be "usually Lawful Good"; this to me is explicit proof that the Seldarine will empower non-cleric LG individuals for the purposes of protecting/furthering elvenkind.

[ThayanKnight]

Actually page 8 of Faiths and Pantheons says that a deity must have paladin levels to grant paladin spells. Of course not all the paladin deities listed have paladin levels, but I always assumed those were the exceptions and thats why they were listed

Also from the Faiths and Pantheons Errata:

Other lawful good, lawful neutral, and neutral good deities that are not
listed can have paladins, but there are no known paladin orders for those faiths (in effect, paladins of those faiths are uncommon enough that rarely are there enough to band together and form an order).

[morwen]

Thank you, Psappho. I think the "Chaotic" part of elves gets taken way too far. To the point where I hear characters declaim that elves don't really have armies because they're 'too chaotic'. I guess the orcs will be happy to learn the news.

[morwen]

Mar 12, 2014 12:26:07 GMT -5 ThayanKnight said:

Actually page 8 of Faiths and Pantheons says that a deity must have paladin levels to grant paladin spells. Of course not all the paladin deities listed have paladin levels, but I always assumed those were the exceptions and thats why they were listed

Let's remember that DIY was the watchword of Gygax right from the start and people constantly lose sight of this basic tenet of D&D that's built into the DNA of the thing.


All this is ultimately a 'campaign' (to use their war terminology) that has as its DM Fire Wraith. If he wants to call that Seldarine can't have paladins, I'll go along with that and not even argue the point. Rules lawyering in a game like this is a pointless exercise and just leads to a lot of grudge nursing.