Reflection on CD

[fluffyduck]

So...I was thinking about this for a while, mainly because as of late and I've noticed one thing with the server, which made me shift towards some other games. I sort of didn't have a reasons to login into the game aside of some scheduled RPs and occasional plots, rare as they may be. And truth be told, even though I used to be one of the biggest defenders of the square RP and the dungeoning, with all the things I had around lately, it sort of got draining, getting drawn further and further away from CD. Which I think is a huge shame, because I do enjoy playing with people and roleplaying with them, but the truth is....it stops being fun at some point to cover general square topic n.456 about weather, constant introductions and so on. And with the growing community, if CD is to keep it, I feel like there should be some changes done. To get people more involved so it's not another day of 'I need to get my 300 daily ticks cause I like my main getting stronger' or make army of alts to serve as sort of a copium for you to have something to do while waiting for...something.

It would be nice if the server sort of encouraged players roleplaying among each other. I am not exactly sure how to accomplish that with current system aside of player's initiative stuff where we just go and hang out with each other to have fun. Maybe some sort of weekly quests which make you gather specific things for certain areas due to various circumstances, implementation of crafting system (especially if it was more martial friendly, not relying on things like CL, but skills like craft weapons/craft armours, maybe even create a feat for it which allows you to plant runic enchantments that you first need to find....casters already have so many exp sinks and get lots of funsie stuff).
One other nice thing would be if if something that is similar in UD would start happening in other parts of CD. Have DMs that are dedicated to specific area, running adhocs or some tiny events...'

'Not a single specific one, so they dont feel like they dont get to experience fun, but some of them. Someone you could possibly come to, ask "Hey, could my character do this in the meantime while in this area" and they either gave you approval for it or not. Giving players more things to do and having them feel that they are actually living the world and are actively part of it. And with this I would even add one thing after seeing that builders are being added. That being...adding more DM roles. Some who specialise at running personal quests, some that specialise at running adhocs and so on...cause i feel like that could potentionally draw more people into it.

Idk...I just feel like both players and DMs should have more agency on the server as it is growing. 

[Deleted]

Removed my post because I want to rewrite it better later.

[thorien]

Nov 3, 2022 10:08:19 GMT -5 oddity said:

Experience

The daily ticks is actually a timer until you can level up again. While RP experience is a good idea, the combat XP is totally pointless. I would hope that the combat XP would take way longer to gain than the RP XP, but at the moment you can get all the combat XP in one day, no matter the level. So you burn out the little feeling of progression so fast that you are back in the square, doing the square RP again in no time.

While I don't exactly want to chime in into the rest of discussion, I will only say that the combat XP statement above is simply not true for high epic characters. Quite the opposite, especially for casters that are researching the Epic Spells, gaining combat XP is a chore and grindfest, effectively discouraging high-level characters from any activities that may cost XP. Moreso, the anti-taxi system forces those high-epics to band up (And exclude lower-level toons or be forced to grind even more) to get any reasonable amount XP or to solo, which is, from what was said many times before, not the way the epic content is meant to be played.

[morena]

I won't/can't comment on everything here, but I just wanted to say I 100% agree with NOT limiting crafting to casters if/when that gets implemented on the server. Casters don't need another XP sink when (1) getting that xp is very hard at high epics, and (2) casters already cannot meet server demand for scrolls for sale.

[The Red Mage]

Nov 3, 2022 9:07:01 GMT -5 fluffyduck said:

So...I was thinking about this for a while, mainly because as of late and I've noticed one thing with the server, which made me shift towards some other games. I sort of didn't have a reasons to login into the game aside of some scheduled RPs and occasional plots, rare as they may be. And truth be told, even though I used to be one of the biggest defenders of the square RP and the dungeoning, with all the things I had around lately, it sort of got draining, getting drawn further and further away from CD. Which I think is a huge shame, because I do enjoy playing with people and roleplaying with them, but the truth is....it stops being fun at some point to cover general square topic n.456 about weather, constant introductions and so on. And with the growing community, if CD is to keep it, I feel like there should be some changes done. To get people more involved so it's not another day of 'I need to get my 300 daily ticks cause I like my main getting stronger' or make army of alts to serve as sort of a copium for you to have something to do while waiting for...something.

It would be nice if the server sort of encouraged players roleplaying among each other. I am not exactly sure how to accomplish that with current system aside of player's initiative stuff where we just go and hang out with each other to have fun. Maybe some sort of weekly quests which make you gather specific things for certain areas due to various circumstances, implementation of crafting system (especially if it was more martial friendly, not relying on things like CL, but skills like craft weapons/craft armours, maybe even create a feat for it which allows you to plant runic enchantments that you first need to find....casters already have so many exp sinks and get lots of funsie stuff).
One other nice thing would be if if something that is similar in UD would start happening in other parts of CD. Have DMs that are dedicated to specific area, running adhocs or some tiny events...'

'Not a single specific one, so they dont feel like they dont get to experience fun, but some of them. Someone you could possibly come to, ask "Hey, could my character do this in the meantime while in this area" and they either gave you approval for it or not. Giving players more things to do and having them feel that they are actually living the world and are actively part of it. And with this I would even add one thing after seeing that builders are being added. That being...adding more DM roles. Some who specialise at running personal quests, some that specialise at running adhocs and so on...cause i feel like that could potentionally draw more people into it.

Idk...I just feel like both players and DMs should have more agency on the server as it is growing. 

I will say that I've been there and done that with how you're feeling dozens of times in my years here. I think it's common and natural. I am *really* empathetic in how you're feeling drained or burned out. Hell, I may be feeling it now. 
First, I will say, that's all ok. And as someone older whose felt this very niche, particular way, I will say, that you *should* play other games. CD offers a couple things that you cannot get anywhere else. However, please don't try(I'm not saying you are, I'll address the suggestions next) to make CD a one stop shop for all of your gaming and creative needs. I've personally been there, and it made this place an unhealthy vacuum for me. It made insignificant things personal, and it made the things it was good at poisoned. So, I will say, while even with the best intentions currently, breaks are healthy and other games are healthy. 

Secondly, I do think recruiting specifically for DMs who are interested in running a majority of personal quests and adhocs is very important for addressing this particular feeling(you and I aren't alone. We are never alone in how we feel on an issue). The admin team would need to address DMXP regarding those things similarly to how they addressed this new builder team regarding DMXP(I don't know if it's changed since I was on team, but adhocs rewarded far, far less monthly XP--so there was an incentive gap). I feel better when I see others participating and getting a piece of the pie, even if I'm already full perse. 

Lastly, you're great and thank you for sharing. 

[Fox²]

Nov 3, 2022 11:51:09 GMT -5 The Red Mage said:

Nov 3, 2022 9:07:01 GMT -5 fluffyduck said:

So...I was thinking about this for a while, mainly because as of late and I've noticed one thing with the server, which made me shift towards some other games. I sort of didn't have a reasons to login into the game aside of some scheduled RPs and occasional plots, rare as they may be. And truth be told, even though I used to be one of the biggest defenders of the square RP and the dungeoning, with all the things I had around lately, it sort of got draining, getting drawn further and further away from CD. Which I think is a huge shame, because I do enjoy playing with people and roleplaying with them, but the truth is....it stops being fun at some point to cover general square topic n.456 about weather, constant introductions and so on. And with the growing community, if CD is to keep it, I feel like there should be some changes done. To get people more involved so it's not another day of 'I need to get my 300 daily ticks cause I like my main getting stronger' or make army of alts to serve as sort of a copium for you to have something to do while waiting for...something.

It would be nice if the server sort of encouraged players roleplaying among each other. I am not exactly sure how to accomplish that with current system aside of player's initiative stuff where we just go and hang out with each other to have fun. Maybe some sort of weekly quests which make you gather specific things for certain areas due to various circumstances, implementation of crafting system (especially if it was more martial friendly, not relying on things like CL, but skills like craft weapons/craft armours, maybe even create a feat for it which allows you to plant runic enchantments that you first need to find....casters already have so many exp sinks and get lots of funsie stuff).
One other nice thing would be if if something that is similar in UD would start happening in other parts of CD. Have DMs that are dedicated to specific area, running adhocs or some tiny events...'

'Not a single specific one, so they dont feel like they dont get to experience fun, but some of them. Someone you could possibly come to, ask "Hey, could my character do this in the meantime while in this area" and they either gave you approval for it or not. Giving players more things to do and having them feel that they are actually living the world and are actively part of it. And with this I would even add one thing after seeing that builders are being added. That being...adding more DM roles. Some who specialise at running personal quests, some that specialise at running adhocs and so on...cause i feel like that could potentionally draw more people into it.

Idk...I just feel like both players and DMs should have more agency on the server as it is growing. 

I will say that I've been there and done that with how you're feeling dozens of times in my years here. I think it's common and natural. I am *really* empathetic in how you're feeling drained or burned out. Hell, I may be feeling it now. 
First, I will say, that's all ok. And as someone older whose felt this very niche, particular way, I will say, that you *should* play other games. CD offers a couple things that you cannot get anywhere else. However, please don't try(I'm not saying you are, I'll address the suggestions next) to make CD a one stop shop for all of your gaming and creative needs. I've personally been there, and it made this place an unhealthy vacuum for me. It made insignificant things personal, and it made the things it was good at poisoned. So, I will say, while even with the best intentions currently, breaks are healthy and other games are healthy. 

Secondly, I do think recruiting specifically for DMs who are interested in running a majority of personal quests and adhocs is very important for addressing this particular feeling(you and I aren't alone. We are never alone in how we feel on an issue). The admin team would need to address DMXP regarding those things similarly to how they addressed this new builder team regarding DMXP(I don't know if it's changed since I was on team, but adhocs rewarded far, far less monthly XP--so there was an incentive gap). I feel better when I see others participating and getting a piece of the pie, even if I'm already full perse. 

Lastly, you're great and thank you for sharing. 

Adhocs reward the same XP as planned quests. What's prohibitive to running adhocs is the hours of setup required with no guarantee of player availability for them, whereas planned quests have a locked in roster. That said, we do have a number of staff who specialize in adhocs.

Nov 3, 2022 10:36:17 GMT -5 morena said:

I won't/can't comment on everything here, but I just wanted to say I 100% agree with NOT limiting crafting to casters if/when that gets implemented on the server. Casters don't need another XP sink when (1) getting that xp is very hard at high epics, and (2) casters already cannot meet server demand for scrolls for sale.

Enchanting by its nature of being a magic system will remain casters only when it's reintroduced. We do have plans for other non-caster crafting avenues though.

[snorriht]

I'd suggest mate, to have a break, and play a game of a different genre. For example, a 4X Sci-Fi title, City-Builder, or something crazy like Totally Accurate Battle simulator.

Another option I am thinking of, once I finish at my current workplace, is learning the Aurora Toolkit.

Because variety can and will re-invigorate the things we love doing.

[rynskald]

Fluffy got me thinking on this and I want to preface this with this is the best community for this game out there and I'm not complaining about the current mechanics. I understand why they're here and why they were implemented. However, I think it's a good topic to brainstorm a few ideas on. I realize I'm relatively new to this server in comparison to other players and I just want to gnome my way into your hearts and minds.

One problem with RP as its currently portrayed (mechanically that is) is that it's a daily quest we log in for to earn daily XP. I feel as if RP should be it's own reward, but I understand why it's there. Now as an unpopular idea, removing that ability to get XP inside the town (Or at least Arabel's square) may encourage people to spread out a bit and stop logging in to talk about the weather and back out again if no dungeons have formed by then. I feel like there needs to be a way to play the game without demanding the character to earn XP.

So running with that last thought, other games that I love to RP in usually have interesting locations that I'm already working on a goal in. Such as looting a building in a zombie apocalypse, or hunting plants in a forest, identifying which bodies of water have the type of fish I need. That means I'm wandering around and exploring the world for reasons other than "get xp and gold." Meeting other characters on the way as I am already doing something is a much more natural way of sparking that initial RP than logging in every day and meeting up in town at the same place. I'm fully aware this is asking for a crafting or gathering system and I'm sure that's mentioned a lot, but any reason to leave the city is a good push in the right direction.

That comes to another idea, which I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement but, whenever the server restarts everyone is funneled into the same location. I would suggest giving the characters the ability to save their location and spawn in where they last left off, or at the very least nearby campsites or small villages. Starting all the characters off at the same location is a little immersion breaking for me (not sure how anyone else feels about this) after a server reset when you're trying to live out in the woods and you have to tell a bunch of people you're just passing through Arabel for the third time this week. If this were possible I feel as though travel would be more of a common occurrence.

I have a few other ideas that aren't fully formed but I would love to hear other people's thoughts.

[nr]

I mean, the town square /is/ a classic place to meet, or the tavern. Social hubs. As is, plenty of folks opt to get the daily xp running dungeons or whatnot, I, personally, think the last thing that system needs is more limitations upon it. Its current incarnation is pretty good, it rewards action, or more fluid conversation, or walking, at a brisk pace. Putting people out of the city, and forcing them to find rp elsewhere, will not necessarily create rp elsewhere, what it will most certainly do is create a bottleneck over certain dungeons, and have people commenting once more on how there needs to be more content at specific level ranges. 

[morena]

I'll just chime in with the observation that it's perfectly possible to get RP outside of Arabel. I say that as someone who actually enjoys going to the Square every now and then, but gets most of their RP outside of that setting. I also know several players who straight up avoid the Square for IC or OOC reasons and still are able to RP. Though, generally, finding RP outside of Arabel does require taking initiative, and sometimes scouting out a new place to go and inviting people there, or organising something.

To me, the Square is a great place for hanging out when I don't really have plans or if I only have a little time. And for meeting new characters/new people. And for hanging out when you wait for your dungeoning/RP buddies to go online. Or sometimes just because it's fun. Taking away XP gain in Arabel would just be taking away a valid way of gaining RP from players who use it often. And I seriously doubt it'd boost RP elsewhere anyway. If you were to "kill" Arabel, I'm pretty sure a single new hub would emerge within a week.

[mel0dy]

the main issue i have with current system is that it encourages people to switch characters and play alts. i was thinking of an alternative where you could create a character that gets slower rp ticks but no daily limit, this would encourage people to actually play and stick with a single character every time they play. As it stands, the daily xp limit becomes a grind as bad as any dungeon grind.