Redesigning Weapons -- Both for Accuracy and Balance!

[Vincent07]

Katana threat range will be increasing.

[Edge]

Jun 1, 2015 1:44:16 GMT -5 thorien said:

May 31, 2015 21:02:36 GMT -5 onivel said:

Gravity equations in fantasy result in the death of boob crazed elves and all female PCs whose mammaries defy said gravity. Are you sure you want to open up that path? 

Yes!

+1

[Voice of Kerensky]

Jun 1, 2015 7:31:01 GMT -5 Vincent07 said:

Katana threat range will be increasing.

That's interesting to know! What will bastard sword be getting?

Also, I'm curious if double weapons might get anything--they're a wholly inferior solution to normal dual wielding at the moment for anything other than cool factor, and require an extra feat.

Comparing a handaxe to a double axe, you're basically paying a feat (martial > exotic) for 1 avg extra damage. Not exactly enticing, mechanically. You're also trading away your ability to use a shield, if it's a weapon you specialize in. I'd actually argue that a 1 average extra damage increase for a feat and trading away the tactical ability to switch to using a shield is actually a -downgrade-.

[valiea987]

Jun 1, 2015 15:02:35 GMT -5 psappho said:

Jun 1, 2015 7:31:01 GMT -5 Vincent07 said:

Katana threat range will be increasing.

That's interesting to know! What will bastard sword be getting?

Also, I'm curious if double weapons might get anything--they're a wholly inferior solution to normal dual wielding at the moment for anything other than cool factor, and require an extra feat.

Comparing a handaxe to a double axe, you're basically paying a feat (martial > exotic) for 1 avg extra damage. Not exactly enticing, mechanically. You're also trading away your ability to use a shield, if it's a weapon you specialize in. I'd actually argue that a 1 average extra damage increase for a feat and trading away the tactical ability to switch to using a shield is actually a -downgrade-.

I'd also like to know if the bastard sword will get a buff. Without one, it would seem like the bastard sword will be a strictly worse katana after the threat range buff.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Jun 1, 2015 15:10:07 GMT -5 valiea987 said:

Jun 1, 2015 15:02:35 GMT -5 psappho said:

That's interesting to know! What will bastard sword be getting?

Also, I'm curious if double weapons might get anything--they're a wholly inferior solution to normal dual wielding at the moment for anything other than cool factor, and require an extra feat.

Comparing a handaxe to a double axe, you're basically paying a feat (martial > exotic) for 1 avg extra damage. Not exactly enticing, mechanically. You're also trading away your ability to use a shield, if it's a weapon you specialize in. I'd actually argue that a 1 average extra damage increase for a feat and trading away the tactical ability to switch to using a shield is actually a -downgrade-.

I'd also like to know if Bastard Sword will get any advantage. It seems like it will be a strictly speaking worse katana after the threat range buff.

I'm thinking perhaps a more serious suggestion thread may be in mind! Getting right on that <.<

[Edge]

Katana will basically become the scimitar to the bastard sword's longsword - one step higher crit range but one step lower damage. It'll be 1d8 with 18+ crit. Bastard sword will remain the same 1d10/19+.

[valiea987]

Ohhh, okay. That makes sense.

[Vincent07]

Or I may just up Bastard base damage to compensate.  We'll see, still toying with numbers tbh.

[valiea987]

I was actually curious about something. Maybe someone could point out if my understanding is wrong (which is very likely could be):

Lets assume a monster has enough AC that the player cannot hit without crit confirmation hits. If the player rolls a 20, they get a chance to critical. If they fail to confirm (which they will unless they get a 2nd 20), then the attack is just a normal hit. I am pretty sure this is how it works.

Now for the question: If the weapon has a 15-20/x2 set of critical stats, on a roll of a 15, do they still roll a confirm, and when the confirm fails, they get an assured hit?

If so, d2 more damage for hitting 5% more of the time doesn't seem like a hard choice to me.

But maybe you only get the assured hit on a 20 -> Failed confirm. I'm not too sure, really.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Jun 1, 2015 15:13:50 GMT -5 Edge said:

Katana will basically become the scimitar to the bastard sword's longsword - one step higher crit range but one step lower damage. It'll be 1d8 with 18+ crit. Bastard sword will remain the same 1d10/19+.

To be perfectly honest, this still makes bastard sword undesirable for anything other than a purely thematic investment. It's only gain over longsword is 1 average damage, not really worth a feat. Decreasing katana's base damage while changing it's crit range basically makes it a 1 more average damage scimitar--again, not really worth a feat (on the other hand, 1d10 vs scimitar's 1d6, a 2 damage average difference, is feat-worthy).

Better solution, in my opinion, would be:

Katana: 1d10, slashing, 18-20x2
Bastard sword: 1d12, slashing+piercing, 19-20x2.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Jun 1, 2015 16:31:16 GMT -5 valiea987 said:

I was actually curious about something. Maybe someone could point out if my understanding is wrong (which is very likely could be):

Lets assume a monster has enough AC that the player cannot hit without crit confirmation hits. If the player rolls a 20, they get a chance to critical. If they fail to confirm (which they will unless they get a 2nd 20), then the attack is just a normal hit. I am pretty sure this is how it works.

Now for the question: If the weapon has a 15-20/x2 set of critical stats, on a roll of a 15, do they still roll a confirm, and when the confirm fails, they get an assured hit?

If so, d2 more damage for hitting 5% more of the time doesn't seem like a hard choice to me.

But maybe you only get the assured hit on a 20 -> Failed confirm. I'm not too sure, really.

You only get an assured hit on an auto success if the monster's AC is out of your AB range, regardless of crit range.

Crit range only applies to hits that are otherwise guaranteed, and the only way to guarantee hits is to 1) break AC (and any concealment), or 2) roll a natural 20.

[valiea987]

Okay. To be sure I have it right: In a situation in which a target is unhittable, only a natural 20 will assure a hit (and possibly a crit if the confirm roll is also a natural 20)?

Okay, that's good. I was thinking about what type of weapon would be better for hunting undead which are critical immune. If it was the 5% greater chance to hit, scimitar/katana would probably be better.

[Voice of Kerensky]

Jun 1, 2015 16:44:13 GMT -5 valiea987 said:

Okay. To be sure I have it right: In a situation in which a target is unhittable, only a natural 20 will assure a hit (and possibly a crit if the confirm roll is also a natural 20)?

Okay, that's good. I was thinking about what type of weapon would be better for hunting undead which are critical immune. If it was the 5% greater chance to hit, scimitar/katana would probably be better.

Correct. As it stands, higher average damage is preferable to threat range for undead. Bludgeoning is even more preferable in some instances, but there aren't really any bludgeoning weapons compared to the two.