Assassin's trick: Removal of Sneak attack immunity

[suddenperihelion]

I like the idea you are proposing in principle, but the problem with it is that it would require a new temporary OnHit item property to be applied to the weapons. I recall there being an issue with multiple temporary OnHits not stacking...? Of course, you could fix that stacking issue by routing them all through a global OnHit handler (which would, if anything, be LESS CPU-intensive than the other potential fix, which would be having multiple OnHit scripts open and close independently)... But that basically just brings it back to my original proposal.

[drakaden]

Dec 7, 2015 10:45:49 GMT -5 suddenperihelion said:

I like the idea you are proposing in principle, but the problem with it is that it would require a new temporary OnHit item property to be applied to the weapons. I recall there being an issue with multiple temporary OnHits not stacking...? Of course, you could fix that stacking issue by routing them all through a global OnHit handler (which would, if anything, be LESS CPU-intensive than the other potential fix, which would be having multiple OnHit scripts open and close independently)... But that basically just brings it back to my original proposal.

Actually you don't need an onhit on your weapon to do that, OnPhysicallyAttacked can check if the last attacker has the Feat to do it (If its a passive) and in that case the condition apply itself, in the case of an active feat then the feat is activated, not by means of the weapon.

[trylobyte]

Just to mention, DDO isn't a valid reference for...  anything tabletop, really.  Having played it for years in the past, it's very different than whatever tabletop ruleset it was originally based on.  I think it should be treated as its own edition.

On the core concept of the thing, if you make something that removes sneak attack immunity it then becomes a mandatory pick-up for anyone with a reasonable sneak attack due to the popularity of undead and golems in the mid-to-high tier dungeons.  It also makes HiPS builds the go-to for soloing everything, since they can combine the immunity removal with spamming HiPS to solo nearly anything they can hit flat-footed.  I'm rather against having anything be so good it's mandatory if it can be avoided (which may be sour grapes since mages got a lot of spells nerfed for being too good).  Additionally, sneak attack immunity is the downside to the rogue's getting a potentially-huge number of d6 damage dice for free against whatever is targeting someone else, which is already a boost from tabletop (where flanking is a lot harder to get sneak attacks from).

[suddenperihelion]

Dec 7, 2015 17:19:57 GMT -5 drakaden said:

Actually you don't need an onhit on your weapon to do that, OnPhysicallyAttacked can check if the last attacker has the Feat to do it (If its a passive) and in that case the condition apply itself, in the case of an active feat then the feat is activated, not by means of the weapon.

I tend not to like putting mechanical functionality into AI scripts, because the feature can break if any builder uses a different AI script on the creature, or if the AI is disabled. It's just problematic design.

And OnPhysicallyAttacked happens just as often as OnHit anyway, so you don't actually have any benefit in terms of lag reduction by shuffling it around between one or the other.

[drakaden]

Dec 7, 2015 20:06:09 GMT -5 trylobyte said:

Just to mention, DDO isn't a valid reference for...  anything tabletop, really.  Having played it for years in the past, it's very different than whatever tabletop ruleset it was originally based on.  I think it should be treated as its own edition.

On the core concept of the thing, if you make something that removes sneak attack immunity it then becomes a mandatory pick-up for anyone with a reasonable sneak attack due to the popularity of undead and golems in the mid-to-high tier dungeons.  It also makes HiPS builds the go-to for soloing everything, since they can combine the immunity removal with spamming HiPS to solo nearly anything they can hit flat-footed.  I'm rather against having anything be so good it's mandatory if it can be avoided (which may be sour grapes since mages got a lot of spells nerfed for being too good).  Additionally, sneak attack immunity is the downside to the rogue's getting a potentially-huge number of d6 damage dice for free against whatever is targeting someone else, which is already a boost from tabletop (where flanking is a lot harder to get sneak attacks from).

I agree that a build with a lot of sneak damage can destroy everything with HiPS, if the sneak immunity is not around so much, however the build is rendered useless when it's only source of damage is nullified.... Which is a pet peeve i got.

It would be nice to have at least a partial bypass of the immunity, like 25 or 50% damage instead of 0.

[Deleted]

Uhm, as one of the higher level end rogues... Sneak attacks are nice, but when you have 5-7 attacks a round, you're still dealing massive damage.

And, in case it got overlooked before, we're not interested in nullifying sneak attack immunity or bypassing it at this time.

[Vincent07]

Yeah, this won't be happening.

[drakaden]

Dec 7, 2015 21:31:10 GMT -5 Vincent07 said:

Yeah, this won't be happening.

I did not really expect a pass for this suggestion but it was still worth throwing the idea, thanks for listening and taking time to reply to it.