Str to dex on melee damage feat

[drakaden]

I know this can bring a lot of balance questions so i am suggesting this with a grain of salt...

A feat that would allow the use of the dex modifier for damage instead of str for melee attacks.

This would not add damage over str but rather replace the modifier used, just like a zen archer would get his attack bonus from wis instead of dex.

This would only apply to melee attacks to keep a delicate equilibrum with ranged fighters.

[Garage Trashcan]

It works fine in 4.0 and 5th because of how the games are balanced, and I like it there.

In NWN in particular, DEX tends to end up with higher AC later on since they don't have armor restrictions. It can keep going up. Meanwhile, STR gets more damage. Putting something like this in NWN (if it's even possible) would make DEX superior to STR as a result.

[drakaden]

Dec 28, 2015 13:45:13 GMT -5 Garage Trashcan said:

It works fine in 4.0 and 5th because of how the games are balanced, and I like it there.

In NWN in particular, DEX tends to end up with higher AC later on since they don't have armor restrictions. It can keep going up. Meanwhile, STR gets more damage. Putting something like this in NWN (if it's even possible) would make DEX superior to STR as a result.

It however come at the cost of a feat, feats are often very precious, it's a price that we would wish to pay for.

I forgot to mention it should only apply to light melee weapons, no things like two handed swords and the likes.

[Nokteronoth]

I'm with Demonic here.

NWN DEX based characters means AC, unless you're terrible at building, and even then it isn't particularly difficult. The game has mechanics for those DEX based users. Ranger gets bonus damage built into racial hatreds, Rogue, Assassin, and other sneak classes get more damage dice than any other type.

STR based don't get a whole ton. They can eventually get Dev Crit, but that takes a lot more than a single feat, and before then the only things that STR affects is damage, AB, and carry weight. DEX does AC, AB(with finesse), and Reflex saves, not to mention 4x as many skills are modified by it.

So, side by side:

STR: Damage, AB, Carry weight, discipline
DEX: AC, AB (With finesse), Reflex Saves, Hide, MS, SleightofHand, Tumble, Parry, Open Lock

I think this is unnecessary given all the tools that rogues and other DEX characters have to build up their arsenal. (They can also usually get UMD easier than STR types to use scrolls.)

~BR

[Edge]

Considering this doesn't even exist in 3e/3.5 or any variant thereof, and not for lack of players wanting it, it's extremely unlikely this will ever be added.

[Atomic Twinkie]

It's a neat idea for damage, but I think it is more suited to other editions than 3.5e which is what NWN runs.

Dex based characters tend to do rather well in specific situations - as opposed to STR based ones that are great in non-specific situations. They're your utility that can also pack a punch!

[Remmy]

Dexterity already has way too much going for it compared to Strength for such a feat to be balanced. As others have pointed out it already modifies a large number of skills, most of which see a lot more use than the one Str skill, can grant AC values equal to or in excess of the most defensive armors on the server, reflex saves, and attack bonus with weapon finesse. And with attack bonus because most dex classes are flankers they do not have to build themselves with high Con in order to tank fights, allowing for even higher Dex values. Combine with certain classes or PrCs like Ranger that have full attack progression and you get people with ABs higher that some pure class or nearly pure class warriors.

This doesn't even get into the actual hassle implementing said feat would require. While a feat like Zen Archery exists that was a modification of a core mechanic by Bioware, not PW scripters. It may not even be doable, or it may require a cobbled system to replicate imperfectly.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2015 14:46:49 GMT -5 Edge said:

Considering this doesn't even exist in 3e/3.5 or any variant thereof, and not for lack of players wanting it, it's extremely unlikely this will ever be added.

Tome of Battle has a limited version:  Shadow Blade

"Use Dex modifier instead of Str modifier on damage rolls with Shadow Sun weapons."

That said, I don't think we're going to be able to implement it.

[Nymera]

Half of your DEX modifier to damage instead of STR might be fair in NWN's mechanics, but, I'm not sure it' worth potentially throwing NWN balance into even greater chaos.

[Not Batman]

I agree with the balance statement. Dex already applies to hit, AC, a great number of skills, and so on and so forth. This change would turn strength into a dump stat for many rogue types, giving them THREE dump stats, allowing for much greater min/maxing potential. Taking into account the ECL races we have, this would open the door to incredibly powerful dex tanks that would effectively make str/con tanks obsolete as their damage potential could match or vastly exceed those of their str/con counterparts considering sneak attack and the like. Even considering the trade off of a feat, that's easily gotten around given a few fighter levels. Think of it like this. Do you want to see an epic rogue with Epic Dodge, Self Concealment, An AC in the 70's, 10+d6 sneak attack, and the damage of a half dragon with a two hander on a standard hit? Dex is already one of the most potent stats in the game, this would make it into a god stat.

[Nymera]

AC in the 70s?   I really suck at making characters then.  That's 20 higher than I've ever seen.  

[drakaden]

Dec 28, 2015 20:18:59 GMT -5 Nymera said:

AC in the 70s?   I really suck at making characters then.  That's 20 higher than I've ever seen.  

Heh, me too.

[Atomic Twinkie]

Really? I made a build for someone that had AC in the 60's at like... level 12. Couldn't hit the broad side of a death star, but almost ne'er got hit.

[Vincent07]

This also falls into the combat black-box.  So not much we can do there.

[Nymera]

Dec 28, 2015 20:44:26 GMT -5 Atomic Twinkie said:

Really? I made a build for someone that had AC in the 60's at like... level 12. Couldn't hit the broad side of a death star, but almost ne'er got hit.

Well I might be able to do that with greater expertise sure, but I'd like to hit things!  

(I'd say we're off topic, but, Vincent hath spoken and this thread is about done anyway.)