Improving the assassin

[ragnarock]

So I looked at the assassin prc on this server after creating my new character, and I have to say I was a little disappointed by the features available. It does have HiPS, which was a pleasant surprise! but otherwise it looks lacking, only with improved sneak attacks and improved fortitude against poison. It also had less spells than I expected it to, so I am suggesting to add some spells to the class. 

First Level: Disguise self, detect poison, feather fall, ghost sound, jump, obscuring mist, sleep, true strike 

Second Level: alter self, cats grace, darkness, fox's cunning, illusory script, invisibility, pass without trace, spider climb, undetectable alignment

Third level: deep slumber, deeper darkness, false life, magic circle against good, nondetection

Fourth Level: clairvoyance, dimension door, freedom of movement, glibness, greater invisibility, locate creature, modify memory, poison


While I understand you can't implement all those spells, as that might have been a bit op, and since assassins don't have a spell book with spell slots, it would be pretty cool if some of these spells could be implemented as 1 cast/day spells like the assassin prc already got. For the rp flair; modify memory, alter self and disguise self would be awesome spells to have. I also believe many of these spells are already implemented into the server? 

Other spells that would be neat to have as far as I can see, would be true strike, darkness, fox's cunning, cats grace and freedom of movement. 

It would be pretty neat to add, as assassins right now strike me as a pretty featureless class aside from the rp possible. 

[onivel]

You seem to be forgetting or not mentioning one of their strongest features which is their paralyzing strike which is unique to the class. That coupled with HiPS can be exceedingly strong.Mind you, I would love to see my assassins get stronger, but as a class it really is not lacking in power.

[ragnarock]

Jan 4, 2016 17:05:29 GMT -5 onivel said:

You seem to be forgetting or not mentioning one of their strongest features which is their paralyzing strike which is unique to the class. That coupled with HiPS can be exceedingly strong.Mind you, I would love to see my assassins get stronger, but as a class it really is not lacking in power.

It is not? I am imagining that the DC is so low most creatures can resist it, though I have admittedly not tried it out here yet. However, some more features with rp in mind, such as alter self, would not give a mechanical advantage?  

[trylobyte]

The assassin's death attack is, indeed, the main reason you take assassin instead of shadowdancer.  Combine this with the improved sneak attacks and Crippling Strike and you can easily tear down mobs with low Fort saves.  If Assassins have any issues, I'd say it's that Death Attack is really situational:

1)  The paralysis is a Fortitude save.  Most higher-level mobs have very high Fortitude saves due to their high Constitution scores, and to stop necromancers and transmuters from running around breaking the game.  The higher in level you get the less likely your Death Attack will do anything than be extra Sneak Attack damage.

2)  The paralysis only triggers on mobs who aren't alerted and in combat.  In most dungeons this is very rare, because either the tank pulls all the aggro before the assassin attacks (making it useless), the assassin attacks first, draws aggro, and gets blown up (resulting in an assassinated assassin), or the assassin has to play HiPS games (which means the party is standing around doing nothing).

3)  A number of the most popular dungeons feature mobs that are immune to sneak attacks in general, and thus death attacks.

4)  The DC on Death Attack scales with Intelligence, which many rogues don't place much value in.  This means the DC is almost always very low, as it's 10 + Assassin level + Intelligence mod.

So while assassins do have a lot going for them, the server isn't the most accommodating towards them as the current balance works against their strength.

[onivel]

Jan 4, 2016 17:41:22 GMT -5 trylobyte said:

The assassin's death attack is, indeed, the main reason you take assassin instead of shadowdancer.  Combine this with the improved sneak attacks and Crippling Strike and you can easily tear down mobs with low Fort saves.  If Assassins have any issues, I'd say it's that Death Attack is really situational:

1)  The paralysis is a Fortitude save.  Most higher-level mobs have very high Fortitude saves due to their high Constitution scores, and to stop necromancers and transmuters from running around breaking the game.  The higher in level you get the less likely your Death Attack will do anything than be extra Sneak Attack damage.

2)  The paralysis only triggers on mobs who aren't alerted and in combat.  In most dungeons this is very rare, because either the tank pulls all the aggro before the assassin attacks (making it useless), the assassin attacks first, draws aggro, and gets blown up (resulting in an assassinated assassin), or the assassin has to play HiPS games (which means the party is standing around doing nothing).

3)  A number of the most popular dungeons feature mobs that are immune to sneak attacks in general, and thus death attacks.

4)  The DC on Death Attack scales with Intelligence, which many rogues don't place much value in.  This means the DC is almost always very low, as it's 10 + Assassin level + Intelligence mod.

So while assassins do have a lot going for them, the server isn't the most accommodating towards them as the current balance works against their strength.

Agreed on most points.. though there is a reason my assassins are smart

Also Assassin couples very well with Invisible Blade. The IB gives another reason not to skimp on the INT.

And yeah.. you aren't going to be paralyzing the main mob tanks, but their rogues and mages are usually fairly susceptible.

As always, as with any rogue type, they do little to the undead and the high con mobs such as giants etc. And yes, at the high level game, that will be fairly limited on its effectiveness, but then that is to be expected as most of the "instant win" abilities are minimized no matter what class you are. Its biggest impact is in the Lower Mid to Mid levels where it is much more effective.  

[onivel]

[Misty]

Fairly happy with assassin strength wise myself too, though the rp ability's would be a cool addition. Very themed to someone who'd well, be assassinating people.

[onivel]

Here is the class as implemented... several of the requested spells are already given in a 1/day format.

Assassin

The assassin is a master of dealing quick, lethal blows. Assassins often function as spies, informants, killers for hire, or agents of vengeance. Their skill in a variety of dark arts allows them to carry out missions of death with shocking, terrifying precision. Rogues, monks and bards are ideal candidates to become assassins.

- Hit Die: d6.
- Base Attack Bonus: +3 / 4 levels
- Good Saves: Reflex
- Proficiencies: Assassins are proficient with simple weapons and light armor.
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.

REQUIREMENTS:
Alignment: Any non-good.
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.

ABILITIES:
Level
1: Death attack +1d6, Use poison
2: Uncanny dodge I, Ghostly visage, Poison save +1
3: Death Attack +2d6
4: Poison save +2
5: Death Attack +3d6, Uncanny dodge II, Darkness
6: Poison save +3
7: Death Attack +4d6, Invisibility
8: Poison save +4, Hide in Plain Sight
9: Death Attack +5d6, Improved invisibility
10: Uncanny Dodge III, Poison save +5

Death Attack: At first level, an assassin may use a death attack, which functions similarly to a sneak attack in that if the target is not in combat they become victim to the death attack. The successful attack forces the target to make a fortitude save or become paralyzed. Even if they succeed with the saving throw they still suffer +1d6 points of damage in addition to the normal damage the attack caused. This damage increases to 2d6 at level 3, 3d6 at level 5, 4d6 at level 7, and 5d6 at level 9. (Note: The additional damage occurs even if the target is engaged in combat.)

Use Poison: The character is trained in the use of poison and never has to make a dexterity check when applying poison to a blade.

Poison Save: Starting at second level, an assassin gains a natural saving throw bonus to all poisons of +1 for every 2 levels.

Hide in Plain Sight: The assassin is able to use the hide skill even while being observed.

I think one of the main reasons Alter Self is not included is due to its ability to give wings and thus flight so it is open to abuse.

[ragnarock]

Jan 4, 2016 18:27:39 GMT -5 onivel said:

Here is the class as implemented... several of the requested spells are already given in a 1/day format.

Assassin

The assassin is a master of dealing quick, lethal blows. Assassins often function as spies, informants, killers for hire, or agents of vengeance. Their skill in a variety of dark arts allows them to carry out missions of death with shocking, terrifying precision. Rogues, monks and bards are ideal candidates to become assassins.

- Hit Die: d6.
- Base Attack Bonus: +3 / 4 levels
- Good Saves: Reflex
- Proficiencies: Assassins are proficient with simple weapons and light armor.
- Skill Points: 4 + Int Modifier.

REQUIREMENTS:
Alignment: Any non-good.
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move Silently 8 ranks.

ABILITIES:
Level
1: Death attack +1d6, Use poison
2: Uncanny dodge I, Ghostly visage, Poison save +1
3: Death Attack +2d6
4: Poison save +2
5: Death Attack +3d6, Uncanny dodge II, Darkness
6: Poison save +3
7: Death Attack +4d6, Invisibility
8: Poison save +4, Hide in Plain Sight
9: Death Attack +5d6, Improved invisibility
10: Uncanny Dodge III, Poison save +5

Death Attack: At first level, an assassin may use a death attack, which functions similarly to a sneak attack in that if the target is not in combat they become victim to the death attack. The successful attack forces the target to make a fortitude save or become paralyzed. Even if they succeed with the saving throw they still suffer +1d6 points of damage in addition to the normal damage the attack caused. This damage increases to 2d6 at level 3, 3d6 at level 5, 4d6 at level 7, and 5d6 at level 9. (Note: The additional damage occurs even if the target is engaged in combat.)

Use Poison: The character is trained in the use of poison and never has to make a dexterity check when applying poison to a blade.

Poison Save: Starting at second level, an assassin gains a natural saving throw bonus to all poisons of +1 for every 2 levels.

Hide in Plain Sight: The assassin is able to use the hide skill even while being observed.

I think one of the main reasons Alter Self is not included is due to its ability to give wings and thus flight so it is open to abuse.

Can't rules be used to prevent people from abusing it? 

[Garage Trashcan]

Jan 4, 2016 20:34:00 GMT -5 ragnarock said:

Jan 4, 2016 18:27:39 GMT -5 onivel said:

Here is the class as implemented... several of the requested spells are already given in a 1/day format.

I think one of the main reasons Alter Self is not included is due to its ability to give wings and thus flight so it is open to abuse.

Can't rules be used to prevent people from abusing it? 

If by rules you mean, "Don't do this, that's bad!" you've got a fat chance of most people listening. We'd have to make a new version of the Alter Self spell that doesn't include Wings and possibly other options, which probably isn't worth the effort.

[Misty]

What's the difference between a mage using magic to grant themselves wings and an assassin using magic to do it though? It's not exactly a high level spell.

[ragnarock]

I don't know if all of the spells were added, but having glibness and modify memory could be cool as well. Those would not be too op?

[Garage Trashcan]

Glibness isn't implemented, but Tailor Memories is.

Almost every assassin on the server I've seen takes points in UMD, so you can accomplish largely the same thing with scrolls.

[ragnarock]

In my opinion I do not think a skill dump should replace class features because it is easier and simpler that way. However I do understand if it's pretty low on the priority list.

As you said, it's on scrolls already, so it's not a balance issue but a practical one.