Item and Dungeon Levels, Gating, and Locks

[FaeFae]

a) As someone who does not adventure that much I must say I really like the variety of items that come from dungeons and enjoy the quantity that will come from, say, a gnoll run. I see lots of things I never saw before and I am excited through the whole ID process. It might not be as enthralling to the more veteran players, but I absolutely love the prospects and would miss if some of it went away without ever seeing it. I do originate from a server where you could go through the entire epic loot table and know what everything was without IDing it, just at a glance from lack of variety.

b) The lower end of the dungeon limitation feels slightly too high... by perhaps two or so levels?

c) It feels like the current restriction on items doesn't actually solve the problem since you need only be level 11 to hold epic items if it's two above, which is less than a month of play on a character. Having it one tier above instead allows people to hold onto their occasional rare drop, and to go along with Eldritch pieces at 16+. That seems a lot more in line with the intentions over the present two tier allowance.

Edit: I'd misread the initial patchnotes.

[Edge]

... one tier above IS what it currently is.

[Fire Wraith]

Right. You can carry items that are one tier above. You can't carry something 2 tiers up.

And yes, we were seeing characters that were under 11th with Tier 4 items.

[Garage Trashcan]

I'd be a fan of a wider variety of consumables on the higher end, with respectably inflated costs. If you don't make a lot of profitable runs, healing vials really put a hit in your wallet when you've got to restock. Some of the more valuable buffs (at a price) would be nice, especially with the prevalence of dispells (and some that are unavoidable, unremovable because Vincent wants us to die horribly) as the go-to "nerf-adventurer right now" tactic.

I'd concur with moving at least a few of the lower-end "Epic Dungeons" down to 16. It would stick with not holding anything one tier over and if I see a vanilla +5 item with no bonuses, I'd rather pass and keep my fluffed-out tier 4. I don't know what the T5 loot tables look like right now, so maybe the more fun stuff drops more often or there's just more of it.

I don't think item drop frequency needs to be nerfed. As more items get added to the loot table (and I still have a few I was supposed to send to Vince forever ago), the drop rate of specific items lowers since there's now more numbers on the table to pick from. Therefore, getting that specific drop that you want/need is a lot less likely.

[whitespirit]

Umm.. this may be a little bit off topic but I wanted to simply thank everyone for being so helpful, constructive and non-negative. thank you!!!

[Misty]

I would like to suggest perhaps a few of the dungeons be moved from the level required area, or at least lowered in their level required.
Pointedly a pair that are simply Not on the same level as the other higher level dungeons in their current state.
Deep Old Woods Cave (Semberholme) lvl: 15-18
Twilight's Edge Tower (Shadows, Dead Magic) lvl: 15-20

They're both rated in the same range as say, Wyvernspur Crypt or Deepgrave which is.. Purely laughable. Perhaps they could be adjusted with their future rebuilds to actually be more along other dungeons of their level, but for now it seems like they'd benefit from a lower threshold to enter. ..So people might, actually go there when they could benefit from it.
Just some thoughts! Most of the other places seem about right level wise, those were just two glaring oddity's to me.

[Deleted]

The loot still pulls from the same chests as Wyvernspur, so the whole dungeons need overhauling.

[Darvins]

Dec 12, 2015 12:58:45 GMT -5 Fire Wraith said:

And yes - I dunno, maybe we should just tell people not to sell or give stuff to anyone of a lower tier, not just based on the item. Meaning that a level 20 shouldn't be selling a tier 3 item to a level 11, because even though that level 11 can easily get it, the level 20 is going to be positively swimming in tier 3 items, and it's much easier to get for them than it is for the level 11.

Maybe we also need to reduce non-item cash drops in higher end dungeons, though I don't think that's as much the problem. Maybe we need more high-end consumeables for 16/20+ PCs?

Might also help to remove the cap at Hawks, while it may have been introduced to limit the money flowing into the system it encourages the player to player market which while good on one hand, does lead to more items being offered by folks looking to get their value rather than the very reduced Hawks value. 

[silentsteps]

Please keep the sales limits. I don't want expansive economy where 20 million means nothing. Gold should have a meaning and purpose, it should be something. IF you remove or increase limits, suddenly we have greater amoutn of millionaires walking around, in reality, whos gold means nothing. I would be supporting even more stricter gold sales limits to increase the actual power of gold in the realms.

[Fire Wraith]

If anything, I think we'd like to reduce the amount of gold in circulation, not increase it, especially at high levels. Low levels seem to work okay in terms of consumable use, but at high levels it can get out of sync.

One thought was to possibly put in a system where people could break down/disenchant/shatter/etc existing magical items of a certain tier, for a chance at getting (random) enchanting shards. This would change a number of dynamics though, and we'd have to look at it carefully. (For one, probably would mean a massive decrease in T3/T4+ items available in Hawk's. For two, might also mean a massive increase in the presence or use of crafted gear.)

[Edwardfalcona]

Maybe an epic level vendor that's a big gold sink. Like once a reset it has a few oranges and has high level consumables.

[Edwardfalcona]

Oh! I think I read a grind up option could work like border lands, where you toss in three of the same color and pray you get a better one

[drakaden]

Dec 18, 2015 9:05:09 GMT -5 Edwardfalcona said:

Maybe an epic level vendor that's a big gold sink. Like once a reset it has a few oranges and has high level consumables.

Things in the module should never be reset-dependant, i find this to be a bad concept move, automatized shop refresh based on game or real life time? Alright, but not resets.

[Nokteronoth]

The 'failure rate' bit is something that Arelith did that annoyed the everloving shit out of me, because you could spend a few hours/days working on high level crafting, only for a 1% chance that it'd turn out right and you're down 100,000+ gold each enchanting stage (our of 4/5) and several hours, if not days, worth of crafting points and two or three weeks worth of casual XP farming. At least back when I played there years and years ago.

I haven't commented yet on this thread because I'm not sure what I think about gating and all. My first reaction is that I don't like it, but I'm still working out the why and trying to be constructive with any criticism. (An initial thought is that the...locks on dungeons aren't exactly balanced, considering the Twilight's Edge tower doesn't have nearly the same challenge as anything else marked its level unless you haven't been playing NWN long at all. But I've gone over that in my review of the dungeon.)

I'll come back to this when I have something more positive and constructive.

~BR

[Deleted]

I think having a high-level vendor with rare, single-use items, is an awesome idea.  Put it down in Sakkors.  Or in Gnolls.  Or in the Frost Giants.  Or put it in the Serpent with a level check, where it won't talk to you if you're below level XX.