Druid Improvement?

[allatum]

As it is, Druids have one real gimmick on the server that revolves around being a bubble of death to things without death spell immunity.

Some options that wouldn't require hak updates (I believe?) would be altering a few shapes as far as merged items go, and adjusting magic fang/greater magic fang: Elemental Shape really only merges helmet, armor, and shield currently. It could stand to include gloves, and possibly jewelry. While elemental shape is fairly decent in several regards (air elemental has fairly substantial AC, and decent attack) it is not really comparable to anything else with similar level investment.

The primary reason glove merging would be best is if some enterprising scripting also improved the likes of Greater Magic Fang to augment gloves for the fact that it should.

Magic fang gives one natural weapon of the subject a +1 enhancement bonus on attack and damage rolls. The spell can affect a slam attack, fist, bite, or other natural weapon. (The spell does not change an unarmed strike's damage from nonlethal damage to lethal damage.)

The note about lethal/nonlethal could be ignored since NWN never made that distinction.


I'm Allatum, I play a druid and am greedy for any improvement whatsoever.

[Darvins]

Can I add it would be nice if they got the same token certain folks get that allows them to altar shape at will... at least at the correct level to represent Mask of a Thousand faces. It wouldn't add any real power boost to the class but it would be nice still.

[Vincent07]

Shifted forms and their properties are actually tied to the polymorph.2da, so there is not much I can do there with just a standard update.


The Magic Fang change could happen, though I'd need to check that it can self target, as players don't normally have natural weapons and thus would normally not have reasons to cast it on themselves.  If it cannot, then that will also need hak line alterations.

[allatum]

It can, I believe? I could pull scripts from another server for reference and PM you if you'd like? The script in question changes it to work on gloves (as bracers can't have attack, damage, or enchantment bonuses on them.)

[Support]

I noticed entangle, grease, and murderous mist don't function. Does this mean that stonehold and storm of vengence are also not functioning? I don't see my druid shape shifting and the like, but it may be nice if their spellbook could gain some beef if their signature spells aren't able to function. But I don't know exactly what their spells are or if the ones in the player help section is up to date.

[Edge]

Because of the scripts our server uses, many AOE Duration spells - such as the ones you listed along with things like Cloudkill and Black Tentacles - either do not work or do not work completely property. Unfortunately, there's not really anything we can do about that, as far as I'm aware.

Storm of Vengeance seems to be the exception to this rule, it seems to work fine.

[Vincent07]

Those spells all work just fine.  Though Murderous Mist may have an issue I don't recall.

[Edge]

I've never seen them work, myself. I recalled something regarding the heartbeat effects not going off properly due to our scripts. Otherwise my mages would definitely be using Grease and BT more often >_>

[Support]

Oh, well, I'm not sure. I've ran goblins in Hullack a bunch in the passed few days, and I tried using all those spells, and after maybe several dozen spammy tries, I think I got one entanglement roll. It's ok, though, I just did not know or understand. Murderous Mist gives concealment to enemies and allies as the spell says, but it does not roll for damage initially, per round, or for blind.

I was just curious because many of druids best spells/ high level spells are per/round, so I wanted to know if I should change my conjuration focuses to something else, maybe.

[Vincent07]

I know I've used grease with it working fine.   All of our persistent AoEs seem to have network based lag.  I do not know why.  It isn't like we've altered them in any way.

[Support]

Mmm, that's alright then. For more caster oriented druids then, would it be possible to buff their companions? Nature's favor seems really powerful, but I think it caps out on a dire tiger summon(summons seem really powerful here), but a druid's companion would be an easier way to scale a "summon" without adding more. Or maybe more high level animal based summons instead of all the elemental options at higher levels?

Otherwise, it seems as the OP suggested in that many of their "reliable" spells are gimmicky death spells (drown, finger, slay, this uh, bubble of death thing, whirlwind, etc). Then again, it may be my fault as a character builder. Druids are pretty strong as melee, and I chose to forgo that possibility and go full caster(6str gnome =().

[Vincent07]

I have no plans to adjust either Druid or Ranger Animal Companions, or Wizard Familiars.  Doing so involves altering 30 creature templates (one per possible level) for -each- companion or familiar type.

[Support]

Ok, thanks for the insight.

[Darvins]

I've found that Lightening is fun for a caster Druid, especially since Vince altered damage spells so they level up as well, and Natures Beauty remains a must have for all caster Druids, it remains useful in many dungeons, since a lot of mobs and even some specials have low Will saves. ((Especially good against roguey type badguys)) All in through your going to have to accept that your not as scary as a wizard or a cleric. Druid remains the weakest of the Caster classes I think. On the other hand, I find playing a Druid the most fun, when chances to roleplay it come up, a Druid has a different PoV to most chars

I'm going to ask again about an Appearance change Widget to represent the Druids Mask of a Thousand Faces ability as a simpler addition it doesn't really add any combat prowess but it seems a fun roleplay aid.

[Support]

I normally try to avoid conversations like this on the forums since it often divides some players with staff, especially staff who work every hard for what the server has, but I'd like to throw some overview from my perspective so far playing a druid. I'd like to start with this disclaimer, however.

I am not a high level. I can see the custom spell list, but I don't know all the end game dungeons or high level spell lists. I do not know if druids rely on grouping with other casters to synergize what they have. I've tested some spells recently with a player and spoken with them about Druids. That's pretty much it. I am not a scripter. I know this isn't a triple A mmo with a team devoted to balancing.

Overall, druids lack any synergy with their own spells. Each of their strengths are hamstrung by spells that do not work or spells that are completely absent or untouched. Solutions to their problems seem unworkable or too much work. It would be nice if we could put our heads together to make them continue to be unique without feeling as though we're making a sacrifice for our preference of roleplay and character creation. Let's try to work on buffs that do not make druids similiar to other casters, but maybe something that amplifies druid's current kit which would less likely create some drastic overhaul for admins.

With that said, I'd like to post what I've found so far, and I'd like to restate that I do so with some hesitation and I do so with respect to the current build of the server and its workers.



I'm not sure how to script a "switch" to fix the heartbeat issues plaguing the current AoE spells that rely on per round calculations to function, but I know it can be done. I believe this is the only server I've seen that has had the problem, but I've only played on a handful of servers since 2002-2003. Since Vincent has said he isn't sure how to fix it, let's try and figure out other ways to strengthen druids while not excluding build diversity. I will go through my small spellbook and list some spells I think are usuable and bold others I think are usuable by have a synergy problem with how currently druids operate.

Level 1 spells: Endure Elements, Summon Creature 1, Ultra Vision, Camouflage, Sunscorch, and Nature's Favor are usable spells. At level 9, most of them because pretty lack luster besides Endure Elements and Nature's Favor. There aren't any cantrips to take advantage of metamagic, so it's a pretty uneventful spell circle and the one that could see the most improvement for utility, I think.

Level 2 spells: This spell level is perfect! All of the spells are usuable and have great RP variety. I see many custom spells added and vanilla spells added to make the class comparable to others who can buff stats and the like. This seems to be my busiest spell level, and spell slot rings help much with that.

Level 3 spells: Call Lightning, Protection from Elements, Quillfire, Summon Creature III, Elemental Weapon, Icelance, and Spikes seem to be the real winners here. Call lightning is obviously one of the druid spells that sees the most applause, even at later levels. It's a great, party friendly spell, and I believe it's fine. Quillfire is a great spell as well, but I believe it could benefit from the scaling damage buff that other spells have taken advantage of. The Direwolf is great, and it's where I noticed summons were really beefy, but like any summon, its utility and "useability" is gated by the character level and its design, so its generally unused by the next spell level. Icelance seems to be a useful spell, but it is missing a school tag, so I'm not sure what to focus. Spikes is a great spell in counter to GMW.

Level 4 spells: Again, all of the spells could see play here(besides Murderous Mist, unless that was changed to just be a fireball type spell with a blind). However, at higher levels, I could see only Freedom and Stoneskin seeing play. Languor has potential for greatness, but I'm not sure the DC on it could be useful at higher levels or not. Trash in dungeons tend to die very fast, and bosses tend to be immune to stat decreases or have high saves to avoid mind spells/ death spells. Flame Stike could see play if only for its small divine damage portion, but that's not the best design or beneficial to the class or party(since they may take that divine damage too if aim is off). 

Level 5 spells: A strange level of spells. This is where druidic spellslots start to really suffer. Cure Critical Wounds is pretty much off the table due to the restriction on spell slots. Death Ward is probably also off the table since I imagine there's scrolls and the like that can cover that. Slay Living is a great spell, but it has the stink of necromancy on it. Spell Resistance seems to be the obvious choice for this circle, but its a bit situational. The Dire Bear summon has had a permanent home for me so far. Wall of Fire is fun, but it only triggers once, and that's when an enemy walks through it. With some party coordination, this maaay see play, but I'm sure initiating with one ice storm will net you more secure and higher numbers. Inferno is a great spell, its downplay is that it has spell resistance checks and tends to be useless on trash and impossible to use on bosses. It's weaker than combust's damage, but you only need it to stick once to get its full damage. Vine Mine seems to only be useful to giving more bonus to the Hide skill. Monstrous and Trollish regeneration last too few rounds when healkits are plentiful and cheap. Baleful Polymorph is interesting; I think this is a flavorful and neat spell. Stormshield seems to be completely absent of practical use except for grouping under a dragon's breath or an electrical trap. And in general, it would be much smarter to spread out. It doesn't function as it says it does on the forum's custom spell list(absorb damage then let it back out), and in general, a single protection from elements surpasses it in every way. 

Things I didn't mention: AoE spells(we get it!). Magic Fangs/ Awaken(companions, as stated above, are remaining untouched, so let's accept they aren't going to be combat viable even at level 3; my poor badger got destroyed by rats.) All the Hide buffs/ One against nature. Great spells, and I had to take a rogue level to take advantage of them; I wish I didn't, but I feel it's important to survive in combat while using healing kits on people without access to invisibility or sanctuary. Shapeshift spells. These seems purely for RP. I'm not sure why a druid would want to shapeshift into a werewolf or werecat, but regardless, its stats were poor, even buffed, compared to a fighter of equal level. 

Bolded spells: I put these in bold, because they highlight what I said earlier about synergy within the class. Nature's Favor is an extremely good spell; and it's one that scales into higher levels fine. However, after level 6 spells, druids run out of animal friends to buff. Their companions remain around dire wolf strength, and while dire tigers can be buffed very well; I'm sure their AC and AB(immunities, resists, SR, attacks per round, saves) will pale in comparion to higher level summons. 

Spikes is a powerful spell, but I almost feel punished as a player who didn't chose a tall legged race, because it only affects clubs and quarterstaves. I can never take use of it, unless I reroll human. One weapon is unavailable, and the other uses strength modifier. The spell seems to be a staple for druids to make them competitive to melee clerics or fighter types while buffed and maybe after dispelled, but it has a strange race restriction, and I don't think I've ever seen a martial character make use of clubs or quarterstaves, so I don't think it's a completely altruistic spell.

Languor, as mentioned, is one of druids many spells that function on disabling enemies. Since we're not including Druid's AoE spells(grease and stonehold especially), spells like Languor seem more important for utility. But it's likely they won't see play due to immunities on bosses. If there's one troublesome spawn that spams KD with high AB, then it could be great! But I don't know if those things exist without lots of buffs, deathward, shadowshield, or construct/ undead. 

Overall, much of the druid's spellbook seems to be a placeholder waiting on a fix or untouched because of a lack of druidic presence on the server. They are punished by unfunctioning spells that druids have always relied on to be relevant in combat and a lack of spell variety and slots. This makes caster druids inferior in damage to wizards(not a terrible thing, but the comparison tilts me a bit) and utility to clerics(largely the same buffs but far less spell slots/ prayers and the like). Generally the class fantasy(I'm sorry WoW-fans) is wizards damage the battlefield, clerics aid the party in doing their jobs better and fix mistakes, and druids control the battlefield. Right now, druids lack any identity as a caster, seem to be race-restricted from their best melee buff, and shapeshifting in general is a poor alternative for going melee unless you need a specific immunity against a boss while you both fish for natural 20s.

What can be done? Well, lots could be changed. But I'd like some input from people who are much smarter than me about these things. I'm playing a 6 strength caster druid who almost solely relies on her bear with nature's fury and a spot casted spell resistance in case a caster pops up. I have a gut wrenching feeling that's not going to be viable later on since, both, parties tend to frown on summons, and I won't be able to beef up higher level summons the same way. So, I'm not using all of my charater's tools. I can't see Frana turning into a bear, really, or a water elemental. But some characters love shapeshifting!

My little suggestions are changing higher levels summons to include the same tag that checks for alignment on planar summons. Give Druid a specific tag that lets them summon an stronger animal type that lets them take advantage of their druid specific buff to make up for the fact their missing their companion in combat at higher levels.  

Maybe let Spikes target a mace or a sickle or another "small" weapon that smaller races could make use of. 

In general, let's not be afraid to change spells to make them more useful on the server or delete spells that aren't functioning. Right now, it's definitely trying to cram a square peg into a round hole with druidic spells, but it doesn't have to be. The spellbook sort of reminds me of having a giant spice rack that signifies an endless amount of flavor and unique combinations but only knowing how to make mac'n'cheese. Haha. Maybe it's best to just leave the salt and pepper by the stove.